Paladins are a rodeo clown. Warriors are a matador.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

It's not false information :l

Spike damage != DPS

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This.

Otherwise DRGs would out DPS MNK.

Berserk increase Attack power by 50% for 20 seconds.Fight or flight is a straight damage increase by 30% for 30 seconds. Fight or flight wins. But yes, PLD is the lowest AE damage of every job, also a well played WAR isnt really any squishier than a PLD. Maintain Storms Path and good timing of inner beast for the spike damage, which is pretty predictable with near all boss fights.

yeah the enmity for lower level paladin is really a trouble, it come mostly by the lack of tool for generate enmity in AoE. without forget that Damage Dealer rarely give you room for land the first hit.
i'm sure a fair amount of tank did meet this sort of people that did make them dungeon a pain.

personally i don't use my paladin anymore for Dungeon because of this, warrior have more tool and in many way are more fun to play, mostly because it's not: 1. 2. 3. 1. 2. 3. ....
the paladin need more tool and more important more fun to be added, a new combo that is really usefull and some new tool can be more than welcome.
other point, i dunno for you, but for me the cross skill of the paladin are... well most of them have close of little utility or useless...

paladin definitivly need more love, not for be more powerfull in terms of damage or reduction of damage, but in terms of variety of the tool he can use in fight.

@sapphic: i will show you where people is mislead

the damage of the weapon from paladin and warrior, give the almost the same damage for the auto attack

curtana nexus : 40.98 dmg for the auto attack with a speed of 2.32, giving a dps of 17.663dmg
Bravura nexus: 60.77dmg for the auto attack with a speed of 3.44, giving a dps of 17.665dmg

paladin: oath of the shield increase by 50% the auto attack (and only the auto attack) and that all, we will not take in account the buff for the spike damage.
warrior: Maim, increase all the damage deal by the warrior for 20% + storm's eye that reduce the defense against slash by 10% leading to an increase of the whole damage of the warrior by 30%

now for the combo used as offtank, for the paladin it will be: fast blade (150)+ savage blade (200)+ rage of halone (260) = 610 potency
for the warrior it will be: heavy swing (150)+ maim (190)+ storm's eye (270) = 610 potency that are increase by 30%

and that where the warrior beat the paladin, because the auto attack at 150 potency for the paladin, can't beat the whole boost of 30% damage that are applicated to the damage he do.
ps: i will not talk of the spike damage, it's not needed, on this point, warrior can be really really strong.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

paladin definitivly need more love, not for be more powerfull in terms of damage or reduction of damage, but in terms of variety of the tool he can use in fight.

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Can't argue with that, as WAR feels a lot more involving. Maybe a combo that adds a debuff to the mob that heals people attacking it for a small amount.

Even though I don't have any problems holding enmity in low level dungeons as PLD, it is kinda dull XD Spam flash then just tab between mobs to check enmity and combo any that are getting high.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Can't argue with that, as WAR feels a lot more involving. Maybe a combo that adds a debuff to the mob that heals people attacking it for a small amount.

Even though I don't have any problems holding enmity in low level dungeons as PLD, it is kinda dull XD Spam flash then just tab between mobs to check enmity and combo any that are getting high.

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i don't find it hard, just can be a pain if the dps are too fast or burst too much. warrior offer more... tool and if you play it well loose the aggros it's simply your fault... even if the dps burst they will simply never get close of your enmity.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's true, that the spike damage, however, the warrior increase all him damage from 20% when the sword oath only increase auto attack damage by 50%. other point, warrior reduce defense against slashing damage by 10% and reduce the damage deal by the target of 10% as off tank the warrior is more powerfull by far and more interesting than the paladin. however, in terms of main tank, paladin is far better.

but seriously the paladin that try to say: "we can deal as much or more damage than the warrior" are simply clueless.

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I wish I could forget that PLD has Fight or Flight, which is the best offensive CD in the game.

30% extra damage, with zero penalty, and sixty seconds of downtime compared to the one hundred seconds of Blood for Blood or Raging Strikes. It also lasts ten seconds longer than the other damage boosts.

Oh, and it's also a lower cooldown than Berserk/Unchained. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

snips

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30% of damage more for 30 second against 50% of damage added for 20 second, if you want my mind, i still prefer berserk. without forget it's push the warrior at +80% of damage for 20 sec...when the paladin only get the auto attack to 180 potency while he get an increase of damage on the skill of 30%.

i do have both well equiped the dps in offtank of the warrior is far stronger than paladin and like i did said the warrior offer more tool usefull than paladin as offtank. but if you think about it, that normal, the paladin is the main tank, when the warrior is more suited for be the offtank, that don't means you can't do the inverse, only that both a better suited in this role.

Having both to 50 I can say this. 30 to 40 on Paladin was the worst. Shield Oath at the last ten levels is, well, goofy to put it politely. But I have to agree Circle of Scorn should have a threat generation sub ability. Doesn't make too much sense for Warrior to get Overpower plus Flash/Provoke and we get...? Exactly. Now I play my Paladin like I ought. I squeeze every single bit of effectiveness I can out of it but the toolkit for threat has got to be improved.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

misinformation

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This is a dead horse. It's already been mathed out and proven in the field. We've known this for a long time now.

MT WAR + OT PLD (Sword) > MT PLD + OT WAR (non-Defiance) - also assumes WAR is putting up Storm's Eye for both
MT WAR > MT PLD (damage)
2x WAR = lol
2x PLD = lol

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Originally Posted by Aleczan

That's awesome.!

Maybe I just had bad luck with Roulette and WAR tanks. One WAR pulled everything until the last room before first boss in Dzemael and died and rage quit on me while BRD said it was my fault. That and so many other unlucky instances with WAR tanks that became my Duty Finder nightmares.....

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God that happens to me in SV HM and I'm always like nope, I yell don't pull everything and they do it anyway and I panic and they die then want to get mad at me. Like bro you pulled like 3 rooms just now, ran and all I had time to do was throw a regen your way.

Long story short don't take it personal.

The fact that an OT PLD + MT WAR can deal more damage than the opposite configuration is irrelevant to this topic.

In dungeons, you only have one tank. In dungeons, there is no Storm's Eye debuff available for PLD. In dungeons, the vast majority of damage dealt to regular mobs should be AoE. PLD is clearly inferior to WAR in AoE damage as well as single-target boss damage.

However, you're just going to have to live with it. It's the same as melees complaining they can't match BLM AoE output. Not every class can be efficient at everything. If this game sees any more homogenization of classes for the sake of balance, I think I will cry. These jobs are similar enough already.