People using frontlines to upgrade relic causing inbalence

what it seems that has happened which agrees with last two posts is people start in uldah as a paladin, have no healer class leveled go to frontlines so cant change to healer. flames get so used to losing even when they have healers they cant be bothered to try anymore. not many people in maelstrom will ask a scholar to change to a paladin... hense the inbalance in class and RL moral then comes people getting fed up, switching and leaving the hole for new inexperienced players, often more paladins to fill.. so is the downward spiral of flames.

nothing against paladins they are an important class, we are just overloaded with them in frontlines in flames and we badly need more diversity.

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Originally Posted by Venom

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I am not sure what entire point of every of 3 posts is then?
Is main point not that your member join frontline unprepared with no goal in mind to win? Join with 1 class and 1 class only is not developer fault because you have option to level other class by just visit other town which would be done many time over course of leveling 1-50.

The view you are giving is that:
Player start in Ul'dah because Ul'dah have tanking guild.
Player only join frontline as level 50 tank and nothing else.
Player also have no class at all other than tank because start in Ul'dah.
No way for player to do anything because have to travel to other town?
Player will not travel to other town to learn any other job and just play tank for PvE and PvP if they are Ul'dah GC affiliation.

All you have as point is that player are lazy and do not gear up other class and play frontline thinking they win because of this.
This is not anything but player laziness and what mention before that they want easy win while put in no effort by themself.

Gor mention he have to switch healer and if he advise people then they tell him "dont tell me how to play"? This tell you enough already of what kind of player is there. It also tell how what kind of attitude player have and how it attribute to laziness. If many player are this way then it is not surprise that frontline have very little player in general? It is very hard to be in team with such people who make you do everything and refuse to listen.

View is very difficult to understand because I see no problem like this in JP datacenter.
"I do not have any class but tank" or "I do not have any class but healer".

Reason I say JP server is because: Problem you highlight is to be affecting overall gameplay.
If NA server so problematic with this because of no healer guild in Ul'dah then it would make sense JP server and EU server also have such problem together.
However, problem seem to be NA only?
What conclusion can be draw besides saying that some frontline NA player too lazy to level other class to help entire GC win? Instead join frontline and tell everyone "do not tell me how to play and i am playing tank because city no healer so we should not have any healer."?

Am I right to say this?
This is all premise is and only solution to such problem is for player to be more forward thinking and level other class then join frontline. It is not fair to other NA player who leveled other class to always have switch what GC needs while rest of player do what they want.

Diversity solution you mention will start when all the player you quoting in your view would think in terms of being a team. This also mean you must go frontline with more than just tank available to you.
I hope explanation clear enough to see. :o

I include Gor's post too:

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Originally Posted by Gor

many of them had no cross classes or didn't gear up their healer. i saw most of the tanks were PLDs and were ONLY PLDs (in vit). i can understand them not having healers because there not being any healer quests in Uldah, however i have been unable to understand their reason as to why they play so bad even when they do have the healers they need. they seem very clueless in strategies and when i would tell them what to do, i'd get some smart remark telling me not to tell them what to do or how to play. they're bads and they seem to be satisfied with it.

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There is no fix for laziness? Post highlight very clear already what true problem is and has nothing to do with lack of healer guild in Ul'dah.

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

All you have as point is that player are lazy and do not gear up other class and play frontline thinking they win because of this.
This is not anything but player laziness and what mention before that they want easy win while put in no effort by themself.

There is no fix for laziness? Post highlight very clear already what true problem is and has nothing to do with lack of healer guild in Ul'dah.

Am I right to say this?

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yep that pretty much sums up Flames. laziness and ignorance plagues them and most don't seem to care. i have no idea how they all ended up on the same GC tho, but my theory is that since initially when FL started, they kept losing because of having no healers, they just got content with losing, so the more serious players left the GC or quit, while the players who didn't give a s---, stayed. and just over time they got left with the the bad, the lazy and the ones who don't care which has evolved into today's Immortal Fails on Primal. don't get me wrong, not all of them are bad players, its just that the bad far out-weigh the good and there's nothing the players who actually play to win can do about it besides leaving the GC. one time i was in a game where a player intentionally remained dead the entire match but proceeded to talk and laugh about it in alliance chat and he couldn't be kicked and this was after the vote kick patch was implemented so, it seems you still can't kick players who are dead at a flag where there is constant battle going on.

and many games i tried to tell them what to do, (i.e. go to mid in XX amount of minutes, attack Manor, etc) they don't listen or they rage back at me calling me names or to stop telling them what to do. one day a Flamer on my server sent a message to me telling me to stop telling people what to do and let them do what they want because they aren't hardcore pvp players. so i told him, well i tell people what to do because they're not doing the right thing and if you're not playing to win, then why are you queuing?

i'm off Flames now, i went back to Maelstrom, but yea, that's the kind of players that are on Flames and i feel no sympathy when they lose whatsoever. in fact, when i play BRD or BLM i go out of my way to make sure i kill every Flamer on sight because i know they're a bad making the game miserable for their comrades.

and you're correct, there is no fix for laziness. i don't know about the other data centers, but there's alot of that on Primal. i seem to think the JP servers tend to have more serious players who want to look good, so lazy playing isn't encouraged or accepted.

didn't read thread but just inform the team they can return b4 the end of the game and switch class.

I experienced the lack of effort Flames side as well. Try and give them a strat and most didnt listen or would poke fun at you for trying. A lot of games after 2 minutes they also just gave up and sat at their flag....just horrible. I switched because of the queue times, figured faster queues get to play more, win some lose some....nope lost almost 100%...third place. 1 week I played I couldn't even get the full 3 wins for my log, only got 2 after 1 full week.

To makes the Flames feel better, your misery may be caused by the bug. Found under Confirmed/To be address (JP) section:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ゲージが上昇しないことがある

Scenario:

Flame captured the Market, 4 Flames vs 4 Adders within the capture circle.

The capture gauge is going down for the Flames when Adders has pushed back one Flame out of ring. (4 Adders vs 3 Flames)

The capture gauge stop when Flame re-enter the ring. (4 vs 4)

The capture gauge still won't move after the Flames have pushed one Adder out of ring. (3 Adders vs 4 Flames). This caused Flames in a disadvantage position. Similar incidents also being reported on various JP discussion site where similar bug can be found in Temple and Manor.

I'm upgrading my Novus to Nexus on WHM. I'm sure plenty of others are like me. OP, how come you are not changing role?

Most people just don't have a healer leveled. They also don't care if they win or lose if they join frontlines for the nexus light. Why? Cause there's no change to what kind of light you get no matter what place you finish. Before I always saw lots of DPS in Immortal Flames. Now? I see lots more tanks. I see SMN who wouldn't switch to heal even though there is no healer on their team.

I leveled a healer and now that I have it capable to do frontlines I almost always switch to healer because... we have 0 or only 1. Rarely this week have I seen more than 1. Thankfully I still got my wins for challenge log but ow. I'd like to reach rank 40 sometime but I'm only rank 34 despite doing frontlines every week and being around rank 19 when FL dropped.

The saddest part is the excuses they come up with not to win. I queued into Frontlines on Saturday on my WHM (yes, I'm working on WHM Nexus).

I get into team A. I'm the only healer in a party otherwise full of tanks and DPS. I asked politely a few times if someone could switch, preferably two so we could have three healers.

I was told, literally, "you don't need more healers, you need tactics." This pissed me off quite a bit.

Of course, we immediately lost the flag at Manors. So, I said screw this and changed to BLM. The people who didn't need healers, just tactics, can just go about their business and die. I'm not gonna heal idiots.

i see it more of a problem that people are queueing in 30-40ilv gear (yes, this does happen quite often), or even as Thaumaturge (no not BLM), or even worse, havin both of those problems.
Just had to vent a bit, been a horrid day today in FLs.