Yoshi-P, GMs, and mixed signals. Should the ToS be updated?

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Originally Posted by Darki

I did not jump on the forums and talk about how it victimized me.

Also, without the vote kick, there would be far worse jerks in this game.

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I am not quite sure where you got the idea that I was victimizing myself, or suggesting to eliminate the vote kick. This thread is not about my kick case, it's about the apparent discrepancy between what a developer stated and what the actual Terms of Service state regarding kick abusing. But I think I've said this enough times at this point.

I've only been kicked once, and it was an abuse of the kick. This definitely needs to be cleared up.

I was on my scholar doing a low lvl roulette in haukke manor. We were at the two succubus that float in the hallway before the 2nd boss...the tank runs right by them and into the boss room. He aggroes the boss. In the hallway, the two succubus that he failed to grab aggro on me. I try to stay by the door (so the succubus dont come in) and heal myself and the rest of the party through a boss fight. The tank and dps don't bother to help. I manage to do it, just barely, and after the fight I tell the tank to not do that again in the future. Instead of handling it like adults, I got kicked.

On healer, my queue time is practically instant, so it doesn't hurt me any to be kicked, but it was still very rude. I wish they would do something about the abuse or make it clear to the players about what is abuse. If people can be kicked just because players don't like each other..that's a problem.

http://puu.sh/amKcA/fd8b350bf1.jpg

There are people who will say harassment = intentionally wiping a group, and there are those who will say harassment = consistently wiping a group, intentional or not.

Even though I'm sure it's not the popular opinion, I am in the latter category. These dungeons are so mind numbingly easy that if someone is consistently causing a group to wipe, they deserve to be kicked. Wasting other people's time is harassment. I am perfectly willing to allow a couple wipes if someone is new to a dungeon, and I have no problem teaching a new person the mechanics of a fight, but if after all of that, they still make the same mistakes, then I don't have the patience to deal with them.

And to be honest, I expect people to be respectful enough to read/watch strategies beforehand, rather than relying on people to carry them.

Maybe you just got the wrong GM...because I've reported "griefers" twice now...both of which got a reply from a GM, both of which said "they take this behavior seriously" and appeared to look into it. But never have I gotten a reply that someone was not breaking the terms of service agreement.

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Originally Posted by Billzey

There are people who will say harassment = intentionally wiping a group, and there are those who will say harassment = consistently wiping a group, intentional or not.

Even though I'm sure it's not the popular opinion, I am in the latter category. These dungeons are so mind numbingly easy that if someone is consistently causing a group to wipe, they deserve to be kicked. Wasting other people's time is harassment. I am perfectly willing to allow a couple wipes if someone is new to a dungeon, and I have no problem teaching a new person the mechanics of a fight, but if after all of that, they still make the same mistakes, then I don't have the patience to deal with them.

And to be honest, I expect people to be respectful enough to read/watch strategies beforehand, rather than relying on people to carry them.

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Repeated wipes due to someone genuinely being unable to do the content can be annoying and frustrating, and is absolutely cause for wanting to either remove the person from the party or simply leave the party yourself, or abandon the whole thing, depending on the circumstances. But it is not "harassment". If you truly believe that it is, you need to stop and think about what that word means.

Also, it is not "disrespectful" to not look up videos and read up on a detailed breakdown of content before ever doing it for the first time. Some people like to play that way, but some people prefer not to experience something in a game before actually experiencing something in the game. If you have ZERO tolerance for running with someone new to the content even once, use party finder or run with your FC. Just because someone has not looked up info on a dungeon before doing it for the first time does not mean they expect others to "carry" them; you are implying that those extremes are the only two possibilities.

Thank you for reporting this response that you received. Being told the results of an investigation is certainly unusual, and I will be personally investigating the message you were sent to determine what may have occurred and to double check that it was investigated properly.

the abuse of the vote kick feature is certainly a violation of the rules, and we do encourage those abuses to be reported through the Help Desk system so a GM may investigate. During any of our investigations, we try to gain objective insight into the situation to handle it appropriately, so any possible account actions are based on actual abuses of the policies, and not perceived abuses of the policies.

I apologize for any confusion this response may have given, since it may not reflect the actual result of the investigation and does not provide sufficient detail to clarify the GM's meaning.

LGM Enkrateia

I can only hope that everytime a player is named in a support ticket there is something happening in the back end. Flagging the player. X number of reports against and we will look more closely into the issue.

Other wise there is no way minor offender will ever get cut off.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

I am not quite sure where you got the idea that I was victimizing myself, or suggesting to eliminate the vote kick. This thread is not about my kick case, it's about the apparent discrepancy between what a developer stated and what the actual Terms of Service state regarding kick abusing. But I think I've said this enough times at this point.

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Originally Posted by Darki

To be frank, OP this has happened to me once. The way I handled it was I just queued up for a new duty and that was that. I did not jump on the forums and talk about how it victimized me. I would advise you look at it as a group of jerks giving you the privilege of not having to be with them any longer and just have fun. A vote kick is not the end of the world. :)

Also, without the vote kick, there would be far worse jerks in this game.

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You took a response that you didn't like from a GM over something that (according to you) only happened once and escalated it to a public setting. You should of just called the GM again for clarification. You would of got a follow up response from the GM. Once you escalate an issue like this to a public setting, it doesn't matter what your words are. It is obvious what you are implying (something that too many people have done lately.) A senior GM said he/she would look into it him/her self a few posts before this one as a means to get you to let it go and let them handle it (GMs are not allowed to be as blunt as the average player.)

Please take my advice that I said days ago (emboldened for convenience.) This is something for the GMs to look at. Not the whole world (I think I just found my new signature.) The world will just throw fuel on the fire. And in the future, please don't chop off part of my posts if your going to quote me. You might miss something important.

Honestly speaking, it's not worth for SE to spend time for a simple instance of being kicked. They'll just send their normal template so that they could claim that they replied.