Fundamental problem to party dynamic

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Originally Posted by Hotohori

I agree with the content that was just released, the developers took a very basic approach on how to create difficult content by limiting the effectiveness of most of the classes for a specific situation. Soon as bard is released, I'm sure it will take another spot in the optimal party set up for most situation as well and squeezing out another space from a melee player. Sadly this is what happens when the people ask for specialized roles because the truth is not all roles are valued equally in the optimal party. They tried to equalize the effectiveness of Disciples of War and only ended up with a mesh of identical classes specializing in either defense, evasion, parry, ranged and enfeeblement which people found to be dull and boring.

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they actually went out of their way to lower other classes effectiveness,

they nerf all basic job skills, which were other DDs bread and butter, but at the very same instant everyone else gets 30-60 seconds skills they take the best archer skill and make it 15 seconds.

They add an AA and cool down based system while giving mrd the longest cool down time, and less dmg on thier weapons than people will lower attack speed? not to mention their basic skill for hitting multiple monsters and thus making thier long attack time possibly worth it, is 30 seconds and 60 seconds?

They make curing/mp management the most important thing in the game, and nerf thms curing potential, and mp management skills?

they must have done all this on purpose, they wanted to destroy any feasibility of half the jobs for any content.

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Originally Posted by Physic

they actually went out of their way to lower other classes effectiveness,

they nerf all basic job skills, which were other DDs bread and butter, but at the very same instant everyone else gets 30-60 seconds skills they take the best archer skill and make it 15 seconds.

They add an AA and cool down based system while giving mrd the longest cool down time, and less dmg on thier weapons than people will lower attack speed? not to mention their basic skill for hitting multiple monsters and thus making thier long attack time possibly worth it, is 30 seconds and 60 seconds?

They make curing/mp management the most important thing in the game, and nerf thms curing potential, and mp management skills?

they must have done all this on purpose, they wanted to destroy any feasibility of half the jobs for any content.

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Well people complained the game was too easy and they really only had two choices.

A) Make everyone weaker.
B) Make the enemies stronger.

They picked A. Also I think lancer is next in line for a reduction to power. The new accuracy formula with speed surge attack speed and the damage on spears makes it the best of the close ranged attackers from my play experience as a 32 lancer, marauder, pugilist and gladiator. Being able to test the same rank against the same mobs, it just shines a little more then the rest right now for me. Archer still costs me gil so it just has to be more effective but that's another story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hotohori

Well people complained the game was too easy and they really only had two choices.

A) Make everyone weaker.
B) Make the enemies stronger.

They picked A. Also I think lancer is next in line for a reduction to power. The new accuracy formula with speed surge attack speed and the damage on spears makes it the best of the close ranged attackers from my play experience as a 32 lancer, marauder, pugilist and gladiator. Being able to test same rank against the same mobs, it just shines a little more then the rest right now for me. Archer still costs me gil so it just has to be more effective but that's another story.

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yes it was obvious to me with this system lancer would be the best dps, its a tp based system and lncer is best tp, only problem against it, is lancer is the most paper class in the game probably. But the even bigger problem is Archer is either right next to lnc or above it, and archer is actually more survivable, and less of an mp sync. The current difficulty is all tied to curing/mp management.


id have went with, make enemies stronger/more complex.

and even with overall making classes weaker, that might be ok, but thier technique is to slow people down with mp regen wait times or increase the amount of healers needed. they barely touched archer, but severly limited the other classes basic playstyles, which were still behind in dps, but now? lnc/pug/mrd is essentially played the same exact way, except lnc is best at it.

they supposedly wanted to make classes more unique, but the only one that is really more unique is conjurer. and they increased the value of con and gld and even archer while decreasing the value of every other class.

btw gil is irrelevant, if i could pay archer prices per hour to make my favored jobs equally entertaining, and effecient, i would do in a second. i honestly think most people would. Give me a potion that gives me back flurry, light strike and pummel, and increases my dps to archer levels, and ill gladly pay, although i would contend archer is paying for the ability to take less damage, and cost mages less, which is tied to the whole difficulty right now, since it really is only about mp/cure/dmg taken.

Arrow cost is a joke, you make 333 at once, and its supposed to get even easier next patch.

It's rough, but have to wait to see what happens when physical levels get taken out.

Still better then easy mode of super characters from pre-patch. At least now a healer is a healer, a tank is a tank, not a healer is a tank and DD, because it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

They can use more classes? sure, but "I didn't want to be a conj to heal" is BS in the greater scheme of things.

Hmm I don't know how paper lancer is but in terms of vitality 1 point of archer vitality < 1 point of lancer vitality in terms of HP gains for 100% certainty. Also archer is unable to wear heavy armor optimally but yeah I would agree that lancer is not as survivable under AoE conditions as the other three melee classes which have really good HP gains for each vitality point.

I feel everyone is looking at it wrong. Any class can have cure or sacrafice, as well as second wind, bloodbath. Any class can have Siphon MP, radiance, and damnation. So there is a list of abilities to heal YOURSELF, and abilities to get the TP/MP to do it. No need to depend 100% on mages to heal. Similar to how aggro management isn't 1oo% the tanks resposability.

Animity managment, Hit Point managment, Damage Dealing, Debuffing, buffing is every classes job. Every class can do some of everything mentioned. Maybe the problem isn't the system in play, its that you're not playing the system.

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Originally Posted by Hotohori

Hmm I don't know how paper lancer is but in terms of vitality 1 point of archer vitality < 1 point of lancer vitality in terms of HP gains for 100% certainty. Also archer is unable to wear heavy armor optimally but yeah I would agree that lancer is not as survivable under AoE conditions as the other three melee classes which have really good HP gains for each vitality point.

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Ummm,
For Disciples of War, 1 vitality = 14-15 HP.
For Disciples of Magic 1 vitality = 8-10 HP

So, I believe you may a little confused about vitality to Hp value as it doesn't differ from one DoW to the next. This was copy/pasted from

@ Coglin

Ok lets say a mobs does an AOE and all the close range players get hit for 1k.. happens often enough at hnm

then lets presume they can all cure themselves for 500hp which i think is a reasonable amount

the mage still has to cure EACH of them for 500hp

and how many times can a mrd use cure II even while using siphon MP.. i give 5 times tops.. not feasable for any extended period of time.. ie HNM

lest we forget if they werent there it wouldnt be a problem at all which is the whole point

you can take my word for it- what u are saying doesnt work

I wasn't asking you if it works, I am telling you from experience it works. It takes ALOT of MP usage off the Healers.
I post telling you what worked fairly well in a group that tried it.
You post telling me what you THINK won't work.....you keep telling me that, and I will keep out SPing your groups by miles. while I finish the dungeons and kill NMs faster and with greater success doing it.

... im not talking about sp grinds