Bards and BLMs ... is hard to control your aggro?

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

People not using their quelling strikes properly. That, and I'm convinced that there are players out there oblivious to the hate meters under their name.

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that and the fact that there are players that don't give a damn, I know people that would actually TRY to steal hate from tanks, which is probably another topic... but one thing I would suggest is if you know you're out geared by the DPS in your pty, just kindly highlight that point and let them know to just wait a couple seconds before attacking, in my experience most groups won't have a problem with that ...

As others have said, it's probably a matter of being outgeared combined with some combination of them being a little trigger happy and not using their enmity lowering buffs. As a bard main, I usually try to let the tank have a few seconds before I start in, but sometimes I get a little trigger happy, or I've done the same instance so many times that day I'm starting to space out some, and shoot one off a bit early, or I'm with a tank whose methods I'm not familiar with and I start laying out my DoTs and then he runs off to grab more mobs unexpectedly. Or, sometimes, when a mob is just close enough to dead, and I judge that I can take a few hits without taking too much damage by really pounding on it to finish it off, I'll go for it and pull it off the tank in the name of finishing faster and moving on. I may have brought some of the FFXI mentality with me to this game with DPS, where the DPS usually do more tanking than the actual tank does, and oftentimes a tank is simply replaced with another DPS for speed because everyone can do massive dmg enough to kill things before they can really hurt you. Not a really great mindset to bring out of that game, I know, but you do something for a couple years and it's hard to leave it behind. Also, remember something about bards, their strongest attack is only usable when a mob is under 20% HP, so if they're on the edge of grabbing hate from you, that's probably the thing that's going to do it. But then again, if it's under 20% most of the time it'll be dead fast enough that you really don't need to worry about keeping hate solidly on it, unless you're talking a big bad boss or something, then it's time to start telling them to watch their aggro. Both BLM and BRD have access to Quelling Strikes, and both of them should know when and how to use it. If they don't, it's kinda their bad, not yours. If a mob is almost dead, don't worry about it, just move on to your next mob, and start building aggro on that one while the DPS finishes it off. It's okay to let them get hit once or twice as a mob dies. Most DPS don't really care so long as the mob goes down before they do, and most healers welcome something to be doing (if they're not holy spam happy like I am sometimes anyway. haha)

People need to learn how to use Quelling Strikes, but being at a gear disadvantage doesn't really help you either.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

People need to learn how to use Quelling Strikes, but being at a gear disadvantage doesn't really help you either.

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Just wanted to say this.

Enter CM/Prae via roulette and paired with 2 fresh 50 AF tanks. i100+ bard here with i110 weapon. Popped Quelling Strikes and still pulled aggro. The difference in gear is just too huge at times.

Have to just AFK for 5s before I start attacking or so.

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I feel relying on Quelling Strikes to save yourself from your own hate generation to be a sign of poor damage management.

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Um, using Quelling Strikes to mitigate your threat generation is BRD and BLM 101. It basically allows you do to more damage without making life difficult for the tank and healer. Not using it is a sign of being bad. There's basically no reason that you shouldn't be using it as often as you can, weaved in between a GCD when it's available and appropriate.

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I never use quelling strikes and never steal aggro in level appropriate dungeons. It's all about timing auto attacks between abilities. When helping with lower dungeons, though, it seems because my gear level is so significantly higher than the tank, my aggro builds up faster, but if I auto attack for a few seconds, it usually counteracts that.

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As above, you're not reaching full your damage potential by doing that. Learn to love it, learn to use it appropriately. Realise that it allows you do more DPS, and therefore helps everyone.

Seems like they are over heard compared to yourself. I've had this trouble when I've been doing a few coil runs then decided to do a basic 50 dungeon to relax. I forget it might not have a high ilevel tank and dps like I'm in coil. As soon as I start grabbing aggro I remember and dial it back a bit.

Quelling strikes isn't really a free pass to go all out. You are right about BLM and BRDs in particular as they are the classes without "ramp up", while melee can do overall more dps, BLM+BRD can frontend a bit more. I think many don't really understand how quelling strikes works and how far just looking that the enemy list and attacking the damaged ones first can go. Of course, popping quelling strikes and going all out on a mob the tank isn't focusing on is still going to get that dps aggro. It's not really the tank as it is the dps's lack of paying attention to what is being damaged (that is what the enemy list is for).

As far as tanking groups of mobs, don't forget about using a riot blade combo to regain MP so you can keep up flashing. Sadly as you said, as far as AoE tanking, paladins are "flash beacons" Doing a rage of halone combo on a single mob just means you will lose threat on the others. You could always mark attack targets, but I think we both realize that doesn't often work in pugs where people just do what they want and don't pay attention.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

As above, you're not reaching full your damage potential by doing that. Learn to love it, learn to use it appropriately. Realise that it allows you do more DPS, and therefore helps everyone.

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I know how to use it, actually. I just prefer not to. I've never had complaints and it really makes little to no difference. I rarely have to autoattack because I don't really ever take aggro. You seem to be under the assumption that I use it all the time.

Was I93 now i94 even with quelling popped and no raging strikes I still pull a lot of agro even at 10 gear levels diffrence
Blm needs a ability like shroud rather than quelling or both would be ideal

My plan is simple: once my WAR is 50, I will use BRD or SMN to farm Soldiery tomes, this way before I even set foot in a lvl 50 dungeon, I will have all my weathered gear/accessories for tank. So far I have not had any problems holding hate, I keep as much of my gear HQ as possible, and always a up to date weapon. I am only 39 though, so I think I have yet to hit the paces where holding hate is going to be an issue. ilvl72 is good, but if you have another job that can farm tomes, then there should be no reason you cant be 90 or better....and yes, I get it if you want to do lvl 50 dungeons in DL or to get DL, that's fine. just know that most of the time, the DPS are going to be geared to the teeth, and that's not something I care to face...