Leviathan's Wipe at 20%?

Okay, so let's say I do twenty Levi EX runs.

He autokills us in about twelve of them. Now, say that nobody in this group is using third party software. Our only conclusion is that "he seems to kill you if you do too much dps, maybe at about 20-25%?" - so what are DPS supposed to do, just literally do nothing in that whole phase after the spumes die? This is not reasonable (unless we use third party tools of course... where it's still poor design, but at least we can handle it).

Twisters are visual. Twintania has a cast bar. You can see it. You don't need any third party tools to deal with Twister. Also, this is not September, so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

You cannot accurately tell 20% on Levi's HP bar without a third party tool.

Also, you seem to be strawmanning us as saying "all mechanics which oneshot are bad design" when our argument is "raid-wiping mechanics which have no reasonable legally-visible pattern or predictable features are bad design".

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

so what are DPS supposed to do.

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Get better...
The HP bar is not invisible. If you played the fight for 12 times I'm sure you'd notice that around the same point the same thing happened (or not, if you're a complete idiot). Just get better at recognizing the point were is close to wipe conditions (appearently your claim is that you are ahead in the fight, not behind so stopping dps for a while won't hurt you). Also, September compared to game launch is the same period of time of now compared to 2.2 launch. Obviously the fight has been out for more than half a year and the mechanics are well know. Difference is back then, people didn't share strategies (for turn 5 since no one beat it), so you had to figure it out yourself.

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Its not about being the same. Its about the fact that a healer got another mechanic to deal with.
When DPS got a mechanic to deal with that they can't go crazy and have to actually control their power they cry about it.

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Well yeah, they're crying about it, because they are being punished for doing well/overgearing. Healers in that situation are not being punished for doing well/overgearing. The comparison is not there.

It's still a stupid mechanic.

But the HP% bar is. Is content which forces DPS to entirely stop attacking for long periods of time unless they're using external tools to accurately visually assess mobHP% good design?

If they still wanted to keep the whole "push Leviathan too fast and you die lol" thing, they could easily have it do an emote or something if it hits 22.5% in that phase. Something like "Leviathan is growing agitated." - something which gives players some visual clues without having to resort to third party tools.

In case the parallel is drawn with things like "well what if you push <x> boss too early and have to deal with one more <y mechanic>?" - this is not an instant raid wipe. This is something which you can adapt to. Levi EX/Ifrit EX literally just kill you. It's particularly puzzling since Titan goes invincible if you try to push him too hard in some cases...

EDIT: And to be clear, we're not arguing that this makes Levi too hard. Just that it is poor design. This is not a difficulty gripe - it is a questioning of what appears to be needlessly punishing design.

you guys are focusing too much on levi's actually health % when really this mechanic can be avoided by simply stopping all dps on levi himself while spumes are up. including any sch or brds dropping dots. in my experience anyways its always the heavy DoT parties that push phases and have this problem

most of my wipes are actually caused my the blm/smn drpping meteor at the wrong time causing the spumes to explode a split second before a tidal wave. the massive spike dmg when that happens is *nearly* impossible to heal thru

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Get better...

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DPS need to get better as to not DPSing? what logic is this

well, DPS need to adapt, ofc, but that doesn't make this mechanic less stupid as it's punishing players who did better than the Dev's thought
just think about when ilv even higher than this and there may be even more stupidity like this surfaced more and more

I\\'ve had this happen, and everyone just said it was a"known bug." If it really is a mechanic we should be able to discern and work to avoid, some sort of indicator needs to appear. I like the "Leviathan grows agitated" notice, or something similar. In and of itself, it means nothing, but with context clues, a good party will catch on fast. Otherwise, I have no shame in admitting that a third party option seems the only fair way to avoid this mechanic. "Fair" meaning the DPS is actually allowed to DPS and not just stand around when Leviathan drops under a visually estimated 25%, just "to be safe."

With pushing phases so common this early in the fight\\'s history, I agree with others who point out that the problem will grow exponentially as people gear up. This fight will punish DPS for getting gear, which seems absurd, as it is contrary to what every DPS class is taught in every mmo. Kudos to SE for tuning the fight to be appropriate for i80 to i90 people, but how\\'s about a mechanic alert so those of us past that point can work with the mechanic, and maybe not have to come to the forums to find out it\\'s not a bug like half my server thinks.

(Wouldn't let me edit my post to add to it on tablet?)

Simply put, either they start giving us Total hp/% or they remove the mechanics. Mechanics we gotta eyeball is stupid. Especially since Half the DPS classes have DoTs that they can't control after using.

Can't believe people actually defend crap like this.