I want Wyverns back!!

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

MRD and GLD dps are actually pretty close to each other (both classes have nearly the same possible enmity generation)... so yeah there's that. I'm full i90 both classes, tanked every fight in the game on both. That said, I've no idea how a pet-tank class would work, but could be cool.

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Will get back to more of this later, but just wanted to point you're considering PLD versus WAR, which is entirely different than GLA vs. MRD. PLD gets two big DPS boosts in Sword Oath and Spirits Within plus a lower reduction on Shield Oath. For just GLA, though, your damage rate is 203.33 per GCD + CoS (10.0 potency per second) + autoattacks (about 100 potency per 3 seconds). For WAR, you get 213.85 per GCDs (SE/BB/SE/BB/F) + autoattacks + buffs that amount to a 33% boost. MRD also has higher STR than GLA, and ultimately produces about 25-30% higher DPS.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Will get back to more of this later, but just wanted to point you're considering PLD versus WAR, which is entirely different than GLA vs. MRD. PLD gets two big DPS boosts in Sword Oath and Spirits Within plus a lower reduction on Shield Oath. For just GLA, though, your damage rate is 203.33 per GCD + CoS (10.0 potency per second) + autoattacks (about 100 potency per 3 seconds). For WAR, you get 213.85 per GCDs (SE/BB/SE/BB/F) + autoattacks + buffs that amount to a 33% boost. MRD also has higher STR than GLA, and ultimately produces about 25-30% higher DPS.

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I'll concede this, but still think it's pretty irrelevant. Any worries about any class doing too much damage on its own to support a pet is easily solved by having the pet call debuff the player's damage. Since defiance and shield oath both already do this, clearly SE can manage such a buff.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

To be frank, Pet based abilities would probably be similar to what we see on SMN atm (Either buffs to make the pet hit for more, pet ultimate attack, or pet moves that modify your moves). These abilities would likely just fit in new places in the basic lancer rotaion and not themselves be positioned based, thus not really impacting the position play.

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That's missing the point. Let's say I'm fighting something easy like Acheron. HT-ID-D-CT-P-FTC-HT-FTC-P-oh shit my pet is dead, when did that happen? Well, I'll now sit for the next 10 seconds doing nothing so I can re-summon it. In most encounters, you're also doing no damage while you run out of the death zone that constantly strikes melee DPS. KB? Dead from Burns, now recast your summon. You even can't see your pet all the time because you're running in circles around a boss.When you move to avoid yet another melee instant death attack, your pet can't be told to Heel as it just gets hit when it follows behind you (every melee knows the feeling when trying to get your chocobro to avoid Bad Breath). When you're far away using instant long-range attacks from a static position, movement is comparatively easy, and it's still one of the most frustrating thing about playing ACN. You can't zoom out to see or direct your pet when you're playing LNC. Your camera facing affects your character facing regardless of what camera scheme you choose, and you have to face your target to attack. It is not where your pet is that matters, it's where you are.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

B) Reducing base damage isn't a problem

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ACN was designed from the ground up to be a pet class. It features utility slots like Physick and Sustain for keeping pet alive as well as DoTs and instant-cast abilities to maintain maximum control over pet in combat. SMN is the single least-interactive job from a play standpoint, and once you get your DoTs up, doing nothing at all means you're still staring at 60% of your DPS. This again facilitates pet manipulation. LNC is not built this way. LNC can't heal, or cast, or swiftcast, or Sustain or Rouse or do anything at all which supports the existence of a pet. Adding these abilities would disturb the ability of the LNC to actually accomplish the class rotation at all. The harder the content, the more the Lancer-Summoner's rotation suffers even in the best case. It's not just enough to say "OK, class gets -20% damage, pet makes up the difference"; your pet does not maintain itself.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

That said, I've no idea how a pet-tank class would work, but could be cool.

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Never happening. UI would have to be altered to even start. Would be insanely overpowered against AoE opponents like Titan HM due to AoE reduction. Generally a disaster to play due to movement-heavy nature of combat. Proper positioning becomes a monster pain. Mechanics unrelated to tanking suddenly affect tank survival (e.g. gaol w/ granite coffin eats you, and your tank is gone, plus twice the resummon time). Opens up the ability to troll bosses with sacrificial lambs -- use repeated resummonings as sacrifices to the opponent and eat attacks which are meant to wipe the raid. The most cursory glance at the concept tells you that the entirety of SE's staff would have to be hit with a disease that turns them into drooling idiots to even consider it.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

D) I don't see how the story is a problem. YP and SE have said they want to expand the current armory system and deepen it, adding at least two jobs for every class, and even adding "advanced" jobs that need to be unlocked via quests or meeting multiple level requirements

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First, he said that about things he'd do if he didn't need to care about balance. Second, all jobs are unlocked via quests with multiple level requirements already. Quite the opposite; we're talking about something that is fundamentally impossible to have in a space in the game. Once you have this job, you must completed all side quests, the team can no longer create side quests in that area, and you can not even enter the area shared by people who have not already completed the questline and all related sidequests.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

The real issue isn't so much balancing the class or what have you, its having a reason to add it in the first place other than "we miss the pretty dragon give us fan service."

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The game has fanservice everywhere. Fanservice is as good a reason as any to have something in the game. As much as I loathe FF11, there's no shortage of FF11 fanservice as well here as well. Balance, lore, and design are the very reasons you choose to use one fanservice option over another. Yoshi-P suggested RDM as a hyper-class made from CNJ and THM, but he's not doing it expressly because it wouldn't be balanced. It's still fanservice, and Yoshi still wants it in the game, but it won't be made like that. Mechanically, a melee DPS would need to be hyper-simplified to support the simultaneous use of a pet. This applies to any potential Beastmaster/Trainer job as well. So yeah, pretty much just GLA, cross ACN, replace now-useless tank abilities with pet ones.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

So.... lets talk about what sort of role it would need to fill, other than just staby staby.

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There is no support (buffer/debuffer) role, nor will there ever be. Unbalanceable. BRD is as close to a buffer/debuffer job you'll get, and it's still essential in 8-player content when it only has three songs to use (MP, TP and magic damage buff). If I come in as a buffer that gives my party a 10% DPS buff, then I need to be about 1/3 of a DPS in order to be balanced. That would make me worthless in solo and 4-player content. Even with short-duration stuff, it's really easy to completely ruin balance.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Could be a way to finally give us the en-fire we saw in the 1.0 trailer.

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En-spells are just flavor for damage buffs. There's no functional reason to bother making them because there's no elemental wheel.

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Originally Posted by SinnersCreed

"we already told you"? who is we? you and a small handfull of trololo? gtfo, go waste someone else's thread's space, thx

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But if "trololos" "gtfo'ed" and wasted someone else's thread space, this thread wouldn't get any bumps. >w>

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

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Ishgard military is made up of Dragoons this is true and you come up with good points. But like any city they could be people within ishgard that no longer believe in killing dragoons they find and build there own small city and a new job is born. One that no longer kills them but befriends and learn how to fight along side them. You think that SE can't come up with some bull why this happens? When this happen in a lot of faction where more then one new faction is born from the old.

Also you keep talking about how you have a movement heavy job attempting to simultaneously control a pet. I don't think that a issue at all the pet could do it's own thing for the most part. Could even be a new system where if you do different attacks your wyvern would do something. There many ways to fix the issue that does not even seem much of a issue. So from storyline and battle there really no issue adding a job that have a pet seem like something they could do but maybe not right now maybe in there 2 or even 3rd expansion. Like i said in my old post pugilist could also get puppetmaster which would end up being the same issue with dragoons. Both Puppetmaster and a new job that use a wyvern could come out together and have a very epic storyline and new mechanics too make it work.

All i'm saying it's not impossible it's just something that would take time and wont come out. Just like how yoshi-p said Red mage could be hard to add and would take sometime. I can care less if they don't add it but i just saying it would be a epic storyline of a new city being born from the old ways of ishgard.

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Originally Posted by SinnersCreed

I have just returned to final fantasy now that I have a playstation(my laptop couldnt handle ff14 well). I had been a ff11 player since release month. And my biggest problem so far is the lack of wyverns for the Dragoon. We can have a battle chocobo but no Wyvern? ludicrous! will we ever get them? and if so how soon? if it is a delay tactic to bring players back into the game that left well knock it off! it's annoying.

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I get your point and even though I dislike the dragoon from ffxi, it was their own universe for Drg. I really don't want ffxiv to give Drg a pet wyvern but there's also minions, lol! Cross your fingers and ask Yoshi o'mighty to whip up a wyvern minion.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

I get your point and even though I dislike the dragoon from ffxi, it was their own universe for Drg. I really don't want ffxiv to give Drg a pet wyvern but there's also minions, lol! Cross your fingers and ask Yoshi o'mighty to whip up a wyvern minion.

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If you read the post it pretty much change to wanting to have a second job with a pet. But it seem people still don't want that even tho they keep there job and just get something new. Even a fun storyline how a new job was born form the old way of ishgard in killing dragons to few leaving and learn how to friend along side with them. So much they can do with this second job with pet that could make ffxiv storyline more rich and fun.

I'm sorry but I'm all for the way jobs were structured in classic FF titles, and I hate to break it to you but Dragoons never had wyvern pets. In fact, ffxi was the only ff title that did. I never minded it, but at the same time I never agreed with it.

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Originally Posted by Kyoreore

I'm sorry but I'm all for the way jobs were structured in classic FF titles, and I hate to break it to you but Dragoons never had wyvern pets. In fact, ffxi was the only ff title that did. I never minded it, but at the same time I never agreed with it.

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Ya but they could just add a second job to lancer there no point is remaking DRG it's fine how they have it. Just add a second job with a new job stone and there we go we get a awesome new storyline on how this job learn to control wyverns and eveyone get what they want. I can care less but i just think for storyline i would enjoy seeing this happen.

[QUOTE=PArcher;1913263]Yep...no experience in this game, but you've played other RPGs/MMOs before so you're an expert.

Just because I've been playing FPSs for over 20 years doesn't mean I'm the best person out there and will dominate every match I'm in

EDIT: also, saying you looked up a guide so you're an expert is still silly...how many people have watched Titan EX/Turn 5 vids yet can't clear them?

First off I never claimed to be an expert after reading a guide, second off if you are trying to tell me that this game is so different that I wouldn't understand how rotations with buffs and debuffs which require timing work well you can stop right there. I know all I need to know about the game to make eduacated guesses and the only thing I don't know is the timing because I havent hit 50 yet. Big deal...