Monk new BIS

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Originally Posted by Nash20

Not sure if you are just not reading my posts right. But I am not saying that the Fuma is BiS...I am saying that if you have sufficient accuracy that the Fuma is an alternative.

Selective reading I suppose.

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I think you didn't actually read my post. "it lets you offload accuracy elsewhere for better gains." Whether you're accuracy capped or not should have no bearing on getting the fuma or cyclas, by getting the Cyclas you can drop accuracy in the rest of your gear and end up better off than if you were to get the fuma.

But you are making it sound that Allagan gear falls from the sky. I have been in Coil for months, haven't got 1 left side drop. Guess I am just unlucky. So, filling in Myth on other pieces I am over the acc cap, making it pointless to stack even more acc.

Again, I am not saying Fuma is BiS... I am saying it is an alternative if you already have acc capped and are waiting to fill out on Allagan gear.

Yeah, that last modifier is pretty important.
I guess I am lucky though, I got all my allagan gear in three weeks

That is quite lucky.

My static could've geared Tanks and Healers 4 times over by now. >.<

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

stuff

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it is as a balance in the entirety of my set i made. melee is an awfully statted piece of armor, comparing 2 pieces out of 12 is not going to give you an accurate comparison.

example, plug true strike into DM's calc, comparing the 2 sets

(1.9) x [((0.00032 x 482 + 0.4162) x 46) + (0.1 x 482 - 0.3529) + ((342-202) x 0.035))] x (1 + (0.5 x (0.0693 x 463 - 18.486) / 100)) = 160.28 avg ws for mine

(1.9) x [((0.00032 x 486 + 0.4162) x 46) + (0.1 x 486 - 0.3529) + ((304-202) x 0.035))] x (1 + (0.5 x (0.0693 x 477 - 18.486) / 100)) = 159.23 for melee+alla pants

statistically, it is inferior when used in my set for balancing stats; comparatively, you say only overmelding would make up for stats, fuma might as well be overmelded, because youre dropping 38 determination for 4 str and a paltry amount of crit. the acc is made up, so in a fair comparison between my set and his suggested switch, it IS inferior

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Originally Posted by monkguy

statistically, it is inferior when used in my set for balancing stats; comparatively, you say only overmelding would make up for stats, fuma might as well be overmelded, because youre dropping 38 determination for 4 str and a paltry amount of crit. the acc is made up, so in a fair comparison between my set and his suggested switch, it IS inferior

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Totally ignoring SS for the win.

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Originally Posted by monkguy

statistically, it is inferior when used in my set for balancing stats; comparatively, you say only overmelding would make up for stats, fuma might as well be overmelded, because youre dropping 38 determination for 4 str and a paltry amount of crit. the acc is made up, so in a fair comparison between my set and his suggested switch, it IS inferior

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No, you are dropping 21 determination and 21 crit for 24 SS and 34 accuracy.
You're backstepping with this whole my set business. You saying the fuma is a worse piece in isolation. That is simply incorrect.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I don't want people to start thinking the fuma is simply the best chest available until T5. It isn't, but it may be a good option depending on your drops.

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Originally Posted by monkguy

@ Allyrion

dont forget about the fuma one, it's statistically stronger than melee, and far easier to obtain than a turn 5 drop some monks may never see.

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Originally Posted by monkguy

except in this case, the secondary stats are so much better than the little bit of extra strength melee offers that it literally is statistically stronger.

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Saying the accuracy is made up is misleading when there are a decent options to drop accuracy in other places. Almost all the accessories have this option and the Hellish claws is an accuracy drop as well.
I understand if your set is what it is because of the drops you got and your luck. I understand sticking with the Fuma if you'd have too much accuracy otherwise and no extra pieces to lower it with.
Just don't say that the secondary stats of the Fuma inherently make it better than the Melee.
Skill Speed is not worthless. It might be our best stat if it affected auto attacks. Since it doesn't, it's our worst but not by the margin people seem to think.

The Determination on the Fuma is worth something like 4.62 strength. The SS on the Melee is 3.5.
The accuracy value (assuming you can use it) more than makes up for the crit and some of that determination difference.
Then the Melee still has its 4 strength advantage.

Also, in case you ask - why isn't the Fuma a decent accuracy drop? Because it is 4 strength lower. You can drop the accuracy somewhere else and not sacrifice your second most valuable that (by a significant margin).

You're right that whole sets should be compared.
I bet you anything that you plug in a proper Melee set, it will be better than any with the fuma.
ziddyt provided a decent one in another thread - http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/5738/MNK-Gearset
Compare that to any full set with the fuma and it will lose.

NOTE: As I said before, I'm not saying wearing a fuma set is bad. I even suggested it for a gearing up mnk here.
It's a decent chest till you even get the T5 one. But don't pretend it's not inferior to a proper Melee set. If you got the Melee chest, you need to adjust for it. That's true for gearing up in general, you make your set works.


If the Melee chest is worth 2 weeks for 4 strength difference or even if you're not lucky enough to have other accuracy drops, is a whole different discussion.
If you wanted to put it that way, you could've just said the fuma works well for your set and it's decent enough till you get T5. Like Nash did.
You've been pretty adamant that the Melee is simply statistically inferior, not even mentioning that's just subjective to your own luck and situation. It's misleading.

it has nothing to do with my "luck" or "other acc drops" or whatever subjective nonsense you're getting at; i DID say "you could've just said the fuma works well for your set and it's decent enough till you get T5" because it literally is. i linked the armor set last page, if you didnt look at it, you should stop with your selective reading.

there is no "stepping back" or claiming "melee < fuma," what's being argued here is that within the gear set i linked, fuma is the best body slot for it available pre turn 5.

i see im wasting breath on someone who just doesnt get it. the melee cyclas is just a plain awful armor, simple and easy.

by the way, linking a drg wardrobe doesnt help your case.

Alright, I see your set now.
Here's the alternate set using your website, since you missed it somehow (clicking that link still leads to a mnk set to me).
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LHN1
I compared it using Valk's to your set

And it does come out on ahead. Using True's 190 potency, Twin Snakes, Fists of Fire and their GL3 buff

Your set
Crit Adjusted WS DPS - 188.324 dps
Crit Adjusted AA DPS - 86.542 dps
Chance Of Critical Hit - 7.7 %

Melee set
Crit Adjusted WS DPS - 196.37 dps
Crit Adjusted AA DPS - 88.52 dps
Chance Of Critical Hit - 13.35 %

Also, why does your set have accuracy of 464? That's too low. Valk's calculator assumes no misses so it's not even a fair comparison if you're below the cap.
With that said, it still loses.

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Originally Posted by monkguy

there is no "stepping back" or claiming "melee < fuma," what's being argued here is that within the gear set i linked, fuma is the best body slot for it available pre turn 5.

i see im wasting breath on someone who just doesnt get it. the melee cyclas is just a plain awful armor, simple and easy.

by the way, linking a drg wardrobe doesnt help your case.

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You said "except in this case, the secondary stats are so much better than the little bit of extra strength melee offers that it literally is statistically stronger."

You keep saying something that isn't true and pretending you are right even though the math on the sites you are using says you are wrong. That makes you special.