WAR Dex and Parry testing!

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Originally Posted by Ninjiitstu

You guys are more then welcome to replicate my results in the way you see fit. It probably wasn't the best way to do it, though it was the gear sets / stats I had access to at the time. If you want to do a test with some THOUSAND hits for each 1 dex you add from attributes to find the EXACT dex number, that would be great. Try not to fault me for spending like 15 hours gathering information for the betterment of WAR's everywhere.

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No no i think what you did gave us a good idea what was going on... All i was saying is that a lot more testing would need to be done to find the exact thresholds for each. Either way what you did was helpful for a lot of people i'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Coramac

45 Dex above a certain number which I believe is probably 216 which means you have to gain a substantial amount of Dex before it matters. In terms of BIS, the initial threshold makes it so there isn't a BIS; there is a combination of gear that must be worn together as a set. Individually, they do not offer any real advantage. You either make a complete commitment to Dex and gain a fair bit more parry or you don't. For Ninjii, it took 57 Dex to hit 246. It would take your character 55 Dex. Adding 45 Dex gets most tanks 1% parry.

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(you might need to allocate a bit of your 30 point into DEX but let's face it, we're throwing it at VIT because there's nothing better to do with it, now there is, 10/20 still puts you over 7k5 HP)

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no problem.

Serious question. Why does everyone point to old data for a PLD's numbers when referring to WAR?

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Serious question. Why does everyone point to old data for a PLD's numbers when referring to WAR?

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Because everybody's assuming that Parry Mitigation follows the same progression across classes, and nobody's yet done a similarly-exhaustive test for it since the last patch? (Or at least nobody has published results that have been widely noticed...)

They might be slightly "wrong" numbers, but they're the closest thing we currently have available to "right" numbers.

Valk currently has a note on the Homepage to the effect that the stat tables for WAR and PLD have changed slightly since Phase 3, which has likely had a slight knockon impact on the base and threshold STR values. I don't have a level 50 WAR, but if you want to do a fresh test of the STR thresholds, feel free :)

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

Because everybody's assuming that Parry Mitigation follows the same progression across classes, and nobody's yet done a similarly-exhaustive test for it since the last patch? (Or at least nobody has published results that have been widely noticed...)

They might be slightly "wrong" numbers, but they're the closest thing we currently have available to "right" numbers.

Valk currently has a note on the Homepage to the effect that the stat tables for WAR and PLD have changed slightly since Phase 3, which has likely had a slight knockon impact on the base and threshold STR values. I don't have a level 50 WAR, but if you want to do a fresh test of the STR thresholds, feel free :)

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I have actually thought about it, but don't know how to be 100% honest. I think out of the box, just don't know how to get there. That and I crunch numbers at work and I promised myself that I would not go crazy in FFXIV and burn myself out. I really just want to enjoy the game and help my FC get it way into endgame on their own terms. Progression guilds, pass. for now at least. I have already respecced with 25 DEX and 5 VIT, and it seemed to have a noticeable difference with parry rates VS. HM Ifrit. But without numbers, I hardly call it evidence.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Serious question. Why does everyone point to old data for a PLD's numbers when referring to WAR?

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What are you talking about? The parry numbers/formula are the same once you account for the fact that it's a multi-roll table.

What old data are people pointing to anyway? I haven't seen anyone link to Valk's table in ages.

Post #30, Many time's it's been referred to in other threads. How do we know if parry numbers/formula are the same across the board, who has tested this? Is there new data? Only reason I ask is because it's always STR or VIT with PLD vs WAR. WAR is pretty limited with skills to test, so there 'has' to be 'something'. DEX never gets touched on because it's always VIT or STR stack debates.

Obviously not MND, PIE, or INT. If it is, I think I will go back to college, just so SE can hire me and I can get someone fired.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Post #30, Many time's it's been referred to in other threads. How do we know if parry numbers/formula are the same across the board, who has tested this? Is there new data? Only reason I ask is because it's always STR or VIT with PLD vs WAR. WAR is pretty limited with skills to test, so there 'has' to be'something'. DEX never gets touched on because it's always VIT or STR stack debates.

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We know because we've looked at parse data between WAR and PLD. i.e. http://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVTC/comm...in_vs_warrior/ I think Cormac also posted some parse data which seemed to go along the same lines (but with smaller sample sizes).

Plus there's no reason to just assume you get higher parry rate as one than the other. And to assume that we need to stack dex would be kind of silly as well. It might have marginal returns, but it's still not a stat available on any gear intended to be used by WAR (or PLD) so the idea that it's intended seems silly to me.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

We know because we've looked at parse data between WAR and PLD. i.e. http://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVTC/comm...in_vs_warrior/ I think Cormac also posted some parse data which seemed to go along the same lines (but with smaller sample sizes).

Plus there's no reason to just assume you get higher parry rate as one than the other. And to assume that we need to stack dex would be kind of silly as well. It might have marginal returns, but it's still not a stat available on any gear intended to be used by WAR (or PLD) so the idea that it's intended seems silly to me.

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I agree it's silly, but that's what bugs me. The only reason it even comes up is the amount of parry we do get on gear. From the post you referenced, it sounds like they are just starting to test, and even then it's slightly off due to the fact the PLD still used a shield as opposed to leaving it off. IMO, DEX+Parry stack may not be so silly after all. Based on that testing, WAR still had higher Parry despite bearing stat wise equal to PLD. NOt saying either way is yay or nay, just that more testing needs to be done. Also, I'm not assuming anything. Merely suggesting ideas.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I agree it's silly, but that's what bugs me. The only reason it even comes up is the amount of parry we do get on gear. From the post you referenced, it sounds like they are just starting to test, and even then it's slightly off due to the fact the PLD still used a shield as opposed to leaving it off. IMO, DEX+Parry stack may not be so silly after all. Based on that testing, WAR still had higher Parry despite bearing stat wise equal to PLD. NOt saying either way is yay or nay, just that more testing needs to be done. Also, I'm not assuming anything. Merely suggesting ideas.

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The only reason it looks higher is because you cant simultaneously parry and block. The game, in essence, Checks for misses first, then for block, then checks for parry.

If you cut off the misses and blocks from both the WAR and PLD in that referenced post, both parses sit at ~20% of the parryable hits being parried, with the WAR taking slightly more critical hits.

In this thread, and others, it backs up the idea of it being a "multi roll" table. Since the mobs have a high miss rate, the parry rate reported by APP is extremely low. This is because you can't parry a miss. But if you remove misses, it leads to numbers that seem pretty reasonable for fighting lower level mobs.

I don't know how much more testing you really need, to be honest. The poster on reddit was just starting his testing, but he posted enough data to draw conclusions from, which is really what matters.