Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

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Originally Posted by Lantia

Wait...What? Let me read it again: Wait....WHAT?

So racer then checking the group to be alive I should do DPS? And I was wondering why we got Tank equip which is giving us defense... must be a failure by SE!

A dead group is doing no DPS
A nearly dead group is also not doing much DPS
Go on VIT and allow Healers to ress one, two or even three DPS which are slepping before the AOE while you do not drop to 0 HP....
I am pretty sure the fight is still faster as with you having STR and doing DPS before a wipe....

If you can guarantee this will never happen: Go STR. But be sure if I am one of the DPS in the group I will flame you down cause of having STR instead of buying time for Healer to ress DPS (which are still making more dmg then STR tank) and avoid a wipe.
Just think about Odin.

If you would like to do DPS then go DPS. We are there for protection and to take care the group is staying alive. Sure it is great doing more DPS. But saying: All tanks please use STR > VIT is just not thinking enough. Like DPS which are using DPS increasments but no def skills

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Did you not read the whole post and just cherry pick a part that you wanted to rant on?

You do a test pull, analyze what happened and make a judgement call from there. The fact that the game is DPS centric for all roles is simply not up for debate at this point. If you can't see that then I guess I'm really confused. This is always within reason. Additionally, since when did putting STR accessories on always necessitate a wipe? Rotational cooldowns and smart use of abilities will always trump 2 k HP. If you can prove me wrong on that point then kudos. There's not a single 4 man in this game that can't be completed faster and just as safe that way.

I even put the caveat in that if your not outgearing then feel free to use VIT gear.

Good lord.

When talking about DF, I think it's up to preference and your personal playing style. Some tanks can go full STR and perform well, others go full VIT. At the end of the day, if your play style doesn't suit you're equipment your entire party will be in bad shape.

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Originally Posted by Lantia

If you can guarantee this will never happen: Go STR. But be sure if I am one of the DPS in the group I will flame you down cause of having STR instead of buying time for Healer to ress DPS (which are still making more dmg then STR tank) and avoid a wipe.

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What an interesting series of words you've strung together.

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Originally Posted by Lantia

If you can guarantee this will never happen: Go STR. But be sure if I am one of the DPS in the group I will flame you down cause of having STR instead of buying time for Healer to ress DPS (which are still making more dmg then STR tank) and avoid a wipe.

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lol are you seriously bullshitting yourself to the point where you think healers outDPS STR tanks ? Not even close man. The only healer who can possibly outDPS a tank is the WHM during big pulls but not for very long because Holy costs a buttload of MP. And even with this, I've yet to see any WHM outDPS me as WAR/DRK on big pulls, and I'm not even doing DF roulettes with full STR, I'm generally wearing 3 STR and 2 VIT accessories (with my 35 attribute points into STR) which makes me have around 17k HP which is even more HP than what we had with full VIT at i170. I only switch to full STR when I trust the healer and it makes me have a bit more than 15k HP which is plenty enough for expert dungeons. And I'll just add that if your healer has to stop DPS when you're wearing STR accessories, the problem isn't your accessories, it's you. A STR tank shouldn't prevent a healer from DPSing if he plays its job properly.

I also don't remember on what topic it was, but I remember a post from someone doing maths to prove that a tank gaining DPS from STR accessories is a superior party-wise DPS gain than what a healer would gain in DPS with a VIT tank (1 to 2 GCDs before having to heal). People should stop bullshitting themselves, tank DPS > Healer DPS. The only exception is if you're a PLD on a big pull, because you do no damage.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

This "melees are shit for AoE" cliches are quite old now. MNKs are beasts in AoE now and DRGs are pretty good too. Just NIN sucks a bit. It's always worth it to do big pulls, even with double NIN, it just takes longer, but it's still faster than doing small pulls and single targetting one mob at a time.

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Yesterday in Fractal, I was with my Drg and one friends Monk. The tank Pld refuses to do large pull cause "we sucks" in AoE . Kinda funny, we were all Ilvl 190+ except the Monk. Finally, he kicks us. (the healer was stupid too).

It's kinda frustating, he didn't even try.


ANd for Whm, I really think they can outdps Pld on Fractal. And outDPs bad Warrior/Drk.
Pom+holy+assize+swiftcast and aeroIII. I'm sure.
Now, Whm lose a lot of dps against Boss.

Anw, I'm pulling the same number of dps if the tank is vita or Str. The only problem is when the tank is new, bad stuff, and don't use cd on time.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

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Do not worry I read your post. But it was the initial statement which shocked me. It is like you would drop BRD out of the group cause he is very hard to master and even then he is doing only good but not best dmg.
To say: Everyone should do focus on dps and then go back and say: Only do it if you tested it before and you are feeling comfortable is like saying what everyone else is saying: VIT > STR but if you feel ok use it the other way around.
Which makes you post to be only one thing: Confusing by saing A but mean B.
Either you do focus on DPS or you focus on surviability and if this is given you go STR. Both at the same time is not possible.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

What an interesting series of words you've strung together.

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Something wrong with it? I was not blaming anyone. Just saying my opinion. If he would like to use STR > VIT he should also be a man and stand up for any issue that can happen because of it. I do the same by using VIT > STR.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

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Please tell me one thing: When did I started to talk about Healer DPS?

If you mean this:
"...Healer to ress DPS..."
Read it once again and lookup what kind of shortcut ress or rezz is in a MMO.
Maybe you are german or france: DPS means DD (Damage Dealer) and not only Damage per Second.

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Originally Posted by Lantia

Something wrong with it? I was not blaming anyone. Just saying my opinion. If he would like to use STR > VIT he should also be a man and stand up for any issue that can happen because of it. I do the same by using VIT > STR.

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I think flaming someone for using accessories you don't agree with before a problem is even presented is a bit... uncalled for. :V

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Originally Posted by Lantia

Please tell me one thing: When did I started to talk about Healer DPS?

If you mean this:
"...Healer to ress DPS..."
Read it once again and lookup what kind of shortcut ress or rezz is in a MMO.
Maybe you are german or france: DPS means DD (Damage Dealer) and not only Damage per Second.

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Lol okay I was wondering if you really spoke about rezzing a DPS because if you have a DPS dying during a trash pull in dungeons you got with a really super bad group or you're not holding agro at all so it seemed kinda silly to me that you were speaking about that and I thought that you might have made a mistake in your sentence and that you were speaking about healer doing more DPS because it was more fitting with the actual thread and your grammar was kinda not helping to fully understand your point. If you really speak about rezzing a DPS, wow. Okay. A DPS dying during a trash pull. Very common situation.

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Originally Posted by Lantia

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Then I think you misunderstood what I meant. I said nothing of classes or jobs, i'm painting in broader strokes here. A roles' DPS is important. That is to say that DPS of a healer, tank and DPS are all important in the current meta. I don't really care what my party make up is in most things I queue, but I do care if peole are just coasting and heaping extra work on the other roles. If a DPS isn't doing his job, be they a BRD or a DRG, then your heaping work onto the tank and healer and the vice versa.

I said, you do an initial pull and test the waters, but you should always be trying to maximize your DPS no matter if your rocking full VIT or full STR. If the group allows it then you gear appropriately. I don't see where my post falters or confuses itself.

@ Nektlos, Lol i think i've tanked more stuff than you'll ever will to begin with. And once again, What is the use of going full STR if healer just can't keep up. i rather give him some more time to cure me due to the extra HP than to wipe and start all over again.

See, thats the mindset of idiots right there. we need to maximize DPS no mather what. If you want DPS look at the DPS Classes not at the tank, And ONCE again not saying you shouldn't roll full STR cause i do, But its a big factor on your healer, and i've seen plenty of healers who can't keep up, specially the new ones.

Oh and yeah, i usually keep up quite wel DPS wise on either tank or healer, So i do know how to DPS yes, but once again. Full STR is not always the best thing to do. You know, random people and all.