Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

This is a fail thread and doesn't not contribute to anything positive to the community. There's more and more egocentric people joining in for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Mature

This is a fail thread and doesn't contribute to anything positive to the community. There's more and more egocentric people joining in for no reason.

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I think this was kind of what the OP wanted, seeing as she chose to joined in on the berating of nameless people than can't do content.

This thread was getting to be a few steps short of a witch hunt anyway.

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Originally Posted by Mature

This is a fail thread and doesn't not contribute to anything positive to the community. There's more and more egocentric people joining in for no reason.

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double negative becomes positive, so this thread does contribute to the community after all!

Personally, I feel that having to study and research for a game fight is a bit silly. If it were any other type of game (or any other type of RPG, for that matter), it would be considered cheating. I don't see why people are so utterly shocked an appalled when they run into people that don't feel that it's necessary to research a fight, before the first try.

Even though it does not thrill me to do so, I choose to "do the research," not because I want to be prepared for the fight, but rather I do not want to inconvenience the other players with my ignorance. Failure cost time, and I'd imagine not too many people are thrilled about wasting time, especially because of someone else. Explaining the fight, via text, besides being difficult, also take an obscene amount of time. Again, people shouldn't be too shocked and appalled that people aren't lining up to be an FFXIV tutor, especially during the fight instance.

I don't think the blame can be totally left on the players, since the game design itself remains totally complacent. The challenge of difficulty shouldn't be in finishing, but rather in doing well. Perhaps the dev team should consider implementing some sort of individual ranking for instance fights, similar to how they handle performance with FATEs. There should also be more of an incentive placed on doing well in a fight. The best rewards should be reserved for those that do well. For example, if you spend majority of a Titan fight at the lowest level of the Navel, perhaps you shouldn't earn the right to roll on loot, or any of the reward tomes.

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Originally Posted by Ashman

I have several friends whom I care about very deeply but when they ask for help I know for a fact they're going to still (after months of content being out) have put forth absolutely no effort into getting up to speed. I don't mean "they haven't logged 50 hours reading guides and watching videos". I mean they haven't even said "hey can someone explain this mechanic to me".... in the MONTHS the content has been out and they've been sitting in social shells complaining about A) they can't ever get anything accomplished and B) there's no one talking when they're on (literally the only two things they'll say).

Then if i do go insofar as to actually be guilted into helping these people. They will completely not listen to anything I try to tell them (sorry i wasnt paying attention to your briefing), or worse yet: "eh, its old content so i dont need to learn it".

THESE are people I know and give a "care" about. Somehow, the community expects me to go above and beyond and carebear some random with the same sense of entitlement? I think the "abhorant elitests" might make up 3-5% of the "people who try" whereas the "entitled carry me's" make up double digit percents of the "casual community". THAT is a much broader brush and I don't appreciate all the devil's advocates enabling excuses by implying the OP is just generalizing.

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This sums up my struggles perfectly, and I thank you for sharing it.

This has been my problem with my FC for a LONG time. I'm not going to force anyone to do anything in the game, but if they want my help in clearing something, it's a very unwelcome surprise (especially in old content) if they STILL don't know it, or have not actively made an effort to learn it. I've never turned anyone away as far as helping them learn, I encourage people to try things with or without me, pick my brain, help arrange a learning party, etc. But when we go into Turn 5, and people still can't handle fireballs/conflags properly, yes, THAT is upsetting. THAT kills the fun quick.

I went from complete MMO newbie to "hardcore" raider in the 2 years I've been playing so far. . . And EVERYTHING I've done, I worked for it. No bought clears, no carries (by me or for me), just pure effort. Trial and error. Approaching new content and not just playing it but pushing myself to understand it. Even now, I continue to just push myself to learn. Can I do it as a Bard? Good, now do it as a Ninja. As a WHM. As a tank.

I won't claim myself as an elitist, but I will say this: While I'm far from boastful, I AM proud of the work I've put in to achieve any and every victory I claim. The gear and spoils are completely secondhand to that. I don't expect perfection, even from myself, but I expect preparedness (that is, if we're not running something clearly intended as a learning party). I'm good because I MAKE myself become good. If I can do it, then anyone can. . . IF they work for it.

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

Personally, I feel that having to study and research for a game fight is a bit silly. If it were any other type of game (or any other type of RPG, for that matter), it would be considered cheating. I don't see why people are so utterly shocked an appalled when they run into people that don't feel that it's necessary to research a fight, before the first try.

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The difference here is that you affect seven other people.

If you want to put together a static that's happy to do fights blind, that's cool. That's what progression groups and world-first groups do before the video guides exist. But if you're joining a group of seven strangers, then you have an obligation to not be a walking, talking liability. To do otherwise is just disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

I don't think the blame can be totally left on the players, since the game design itself remains totally complacent. The challenge of difficulty shouldn't be in finishing, but rather in doing well. Perhaps the dev team should consider implementing some sort of individual ranking for instance fights, similar to how they handle performance with FATEs. There should also be more of an incentive placed on doing well in a fight. The best rewards should be reserved for those that do well. For example, if you spend majority of a Titan fight at the lowest level of the Navel, perhaps you shouldn't earn the right to roll on loot, or any of the reward tomes.

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This gets dangerous. Rarely are there situations as black and white as being at the bottom of Titan's arena. When you're asking the game to determine whether or not someone "did well" in a mechanics-heavy fight, you're asking for abuse. I'd point to The Hunt as an example of this. A white mage spamming medica will get his group full credit regardless of whether or not any of that was effective healing. This is the system you're asking to determine who gets loot in content.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

This sums up my struggles perfectly, and I thank you for sharing it.

This has been my problem with my FC for a LONG time. I'm not going to force anyone to do anything in the game, but if they want my help in clearing something, it's a very unwelcome surprise (especially in old content) if they STILL don't know it

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This is the reason why people cannot learn it. If you refusing help how do you expect people to learn?. It's all nice and lovely to ask someone : have you watched a video? And EVEN if they did they don't get help. Plus practice makes better. a video can support the knowledge of the fight but without having someone to put it practice what do you expect?. People in general should be more helpful like they were helpful to YOU. (because we all need help in this game no one was born knowing all the mechanics)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's because there is a very high degree of overlap of the two subsets.

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Yet, they are two different things regardless. People should recognize that fact. You can be an elitist, and asshole, or an elitist AND an asshole. Just because you can be both does not make it accurate to conflate an asshole with an elitist. Simply shows that the person accusing doesn't care about the distinction.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

If you are going to write something this stupid and incorrect, atleast try to make it sound funny so its enjoyable to read, yes?

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With regards to the "You have an obligation as a human being not to be a liability to everyone around you" comment, while it could've been worded better, there is truth to it. It's practically a military mindset: "My mistakes can jeopardize my team"

And it's true.

THAT is why some push to be good. That's why some watch videos or make learning parties, and that's the same reason why those same people get upset when someone who is clearly underprepared or willingly ignorant of or ignoring mechanics causes a wipe. In this game, it doesn't matter if 7 people are ready or experienced if that 1 person is not. They ARE a liability. They will jeopardize the team. Maybe not always. Hell, I've gone into things new, and no one knew til we won. Why? Because I came ready. Because I focus. Because I make effort to minimize my liability when I'm that one new guy. Not everyone does it, no. And no one HAS to do it. But I'll be blunt: if you want to win, if you want to be good, you need to prepare. And you need to follow through. If 8 people can come together and operate under that type of mindset, there's NOTHING elitist in it.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

The difference here is that you affect seven other people.

If you want to put together a static that's happy to do fights blind, that's cool. That's what progression groups and world-first groups do before the video guides exist. But if you're joining a group of seven strangers, then you have an obligation to not be a walking, talking liability. To do otherwise is just disrespectful.

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I am aware of this, which is pretty much what I said in the following paragraph. Since you omitted it from your reply, can I assume that you did not read it?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

This gets dangerous. Rarely are there situations as black and white as being at the bottom of Titan's arena. When you're asking the game to determine whether or not someone "did well" in a mechanics-heavy fight, you're asking for abuse. I'd point to The Hunt as an example of this. A white mage spamming medica will get his group full credit regardless of whether or not any of that was effective healing. This is the system you're asking to determine who gets loot in content.

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I fail to see how an example about an individual abusing the system for the team, relates to the system gauging the individuals performance.

Any solution that is implemented will be open to some sort of abuse. If RMT proves anything, it's that. However that shouldn't be a reason that a solution shouldn't be considered.

So far, you've either said why my solutions wouldn't work, or conveniently ignored them. Perhaps you have a solution, or perhaps something to add to mine?