[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

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Originally Posted by Akiza

In Final Fantasy MMO's Square is never going to make the Red Mage have access to both White and Black magic since they'll be nerfed in each area so the Red Mage is relegated to the Debuffer role by default. The Summoner should primarily be a Pet role with Debuffer as a secondary role. As for Beastmaster in the future which is a Pet role just like Summoner is suppose to be and for the players that say the Summoner is fine how will you like it if Beastmaster turned out to be a Marauder with the Pet as an afterthought.

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ROFLMAO. "In Final Fantasy MMO's" what are you talking about? Square-Enix has in fact made THREE classes in a Final Fantasy MMO that have significant access to both White and Black Magic. In Final Fantasy XI the Red Mage, Scholar, and Geomancer all have access to both White and Black Magic to varying degree's. So don't you go telling me that it would never happen in a Final Fantasy MMO. And no, the Scholar of Final Fantasy XI has absolutely nothing in common with the Scholar of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn aside from their fashion sense.

As for what the Summoner should or shouldn't be. Historically the Summoners in the Final Fantasy Series were either primarily White Mages (although there was one instance of it being a Black Mage) with the additional ability to summon monsters to aid them in battle, or the summoning ability was an ability that all characters had access to regardless of what their primary occupation is. I mean Cloud Strife and Squall Leonheart both had the ability to summon Bahamut to their aid, but they were both primarily sword-wielding bad asses, not summoners.

Point is, the concept of a "Dedicated Summoner" class is something that is relatively new within the Final Fantasy Franchise. You only really see it's presence in Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, and in the case of the former people generally prefer the Summoner to be a back-up healer instead of being a dedicated Summoner. In fact it is only in the case of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn that the role of the Summoner is so well defined that it actually has a specific job to do in the party instead of being relegated to doing something it wasn't intended to do.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

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It's Akiza you're replying to so it should come as no surprise that logic is absent and ignorance is aplenty.

Remove akiza

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Originally Posted by Tharian

ROFLMAO. Snip .

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In an MMORPG the class and role has to agree with each other otherwise the presentation falls apart. Generally people prefer a "Dedicated Summoner" (role centered around Pets) instead of the Summoner as a back-up healer since they'll be nerfed White Mages and a crippled healer since all their traits go to enhanced pets and damage buffs. Most MMORPG's developer have the Summoner in a "Dedicated Pet Role" with a flashy pet since it's easier to implement the developers vision for how the class is intended to be played. I'm pretty sure that the Final Fantasy XIV developer isn't happy how the Summoner has turned out since we ended being Garuda Master's.

A few cool suggestions on how the to make the Smn more fun to play and more true to their name:

Replace all Dot abilities with "Summon Spells"
-These "summon spells" can either have cast times or be instant casts, just like the Dots they are replacing.
-"summon spells" will summon a entity/monster from the FF universe and will deal instant burst damage as well as apply a dot effect. Of course the combined damage of the initial damage+ dot will be equal to the total damage of the old Dot spell that they replace.
-the entity summoned by this spell is non-controllable and is basically a spell effect.
-example: Instant cast bio deals 800 damage over 17 seconds. The new "summon spell" that replaces this will deal 350 damage instantly, and an additional 450 over 17 seconds.
-other "summon spells" could summon an entity which only applies a dot, with no initial damage.
-This should make summoners more true to their name while keeping with their Dot play style

Remove Ruin I/II and the spam associated with it
-Remove Ruin I and replace it with Ruin II.
-Ruin II should cost a tiny bit more more mp and have a cast time.
-Ruin I should be replaced with a skill that commands your pet to do an attack. Instant Cast. No cool-down.
-Once the command is activated, the pet will cast the ability regardless of what it's doing.
-Doing the command will not cancel any attack the pet currently doing/casting.
-the pet can do the command attack and it's own ability at the same time (i know, possible animation clipping problems)
-Ifrit Eggi: Blazing Tackle - instantly charges to the target within X range dealing X damage.
-Garu Egi: Windlash - instantly applies a dot to the target which stacks up to 3 times on the same target, deals X damage over 9 seconds. Reapplying the effect does not reset the time remaining on the Dot.
-Titan Egi: Earthen Uproar - instantly taunt (X range) the target and deal X damage(melee range).

If you make our dots have burst damage and still have a Dot while retaining the damage then they won't be lasting very long at all or have a completely laughable potency to stay the same duration
The entity would just pop out and do its flashy shit which would not make sense for SCH and would make changing to SMN do nothing but have a graphical change to spells
If you remove Ruin 1 you have no idea how this class works. If you make Ruin 2 cost more MP you are asking SMN to never have Mp. Ruin 2 is not stronger than Ruin 1, if this is your reason for removing 1
Thats how the pet currently works, but your flashy dots would remove the pet from existing.
Why would anyone try and stack a dot up to 3 times that only lasts 9 seconds? You'd only get the final tick with full damage once.

If you do not play SMN or have any idea of how it works do not make random suggestions that sound good to you

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Originally Posted by Madoka

If you do not play SMN or have any idea of how it works do not make random suggestions that sound good to you

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-Damage from "summon spells" are a hybrid between hard cast damage and dot damage. Allowing the summoner to still do some damage while on the move.
-Summon spells would be exclusive to the SMN, and will replace the previous dot spells at a certain level. SCH can keep the old dots.
-Current summoner play relies on spamming ruin I/II when you have all your dots up and pet abilities are on CD.
-Ruin II will be only used for it's debuff and a quick instant cast if your pet is dead and you are waiting to rezz it but can't do it immediately due to boss mechanics. Will be renamed Ruin I.
-Summon spells will replace the original Ruin II.
-the whole idea is of the new garu spell is to have escalating dot damage.

You must be having a really bad day, because you sound real angry. :( Hope you get better soon! :)
PS. My main is a summoner, i just haven't changed it on the forums.

Nowhere near angry, i just don't grasp how somebody could come up with such silly changes and think it keeps how the class works.

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Originally Posted by ClaireTagg

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Madoka's correct. Your whole concept is totally flawed and it clearly shows a lack of understanding as to how the current Summoner class plays right now.