Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

Don't think healers dps is stoping people from playing the role. The same can be said for tanks too, it is responsibility.

Both healers and tanks have high responsibility from their very 1st dungeon till endgame raids. If they screw up it is 90% chance wipe.
Once someone has enough experience with healing/tanking then they can squeeze in some dps. This comes later, not in early dungeons, unless you are over geared.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Yes and no. Most people who play healers want the responsibility to heal. It's when they're yelled and screamed at, called names and vilified for not wanting to DPS or having the accuracy needed to do so in raid content that intimidates people more. I'm not saying healers should not DPS- I do it all the time. But managing all that: heals, dps, buffing tank for tank busters, performing mechanics, managing MP, raising dead dragoons, etc is very high demand compared to most other jobs and the pressure to perform can be a lot to handle.

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Not disagreeing with you but this doesn't stop people from trying out healing in dungeons at least. All the things you mentioned is mostly focused on at endgame where people mostly play jobs that they are confident with.

Also a very important note, both healers and tanks will underperform by a lot with other random tanks/healers.
Unlike dps, where they just do the same thing with any party. Tanks and healers have to work together to max both their gameplay.
You cannot find this in dungeons or extreme farms unless the tank and healer are pre-made or have very similar mindsets.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Don't think healers dps is stoping people from playing the role. The same can be said for tanks too, it is responsibility.

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Yes and no. Most people who play healers want the responsibility to heal. It's when they're yelled and screamed at, called names and vilified for not wanting to DPS or having the accuracy needed to do so in raid content that intimidates people more. I'm not saying healers should not DPS- I do it all the time. But managing all that: heals, dps, buffing tank for tank busters, performing mechanics, managing MP, raising dead dragoons, etc is very high demand compared to most other jobs and the pressure to perform can be a lot to handle.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Also a very important note, both healers and tanks will underperform by a lot with other random tanks/healers.

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Your comment illustrates my point precisely. If no one has died during a dungeon run, who is to say the healer underperformed at all? If the tank kept the aggro of all the mobs, who's to say he underperformed at all? By whose definition of "maxing" gameplay are you holding people to?

Healer DPS is a necessary part for their solo experience doing levequests and the like. That was its intended purpose. It is the community that is taking a bonus of a healer that is performing beyond what the game demands of him and setting that as "normal" that is the problem here. Yoshida has said that DPS are expected to perform at approximately 90% of maximum, so why is it that healers and tanks are constantly expected to perform at over 100% of what the devs have balanced the content for?

Is the bar that the devs have set low? Yes, yes it is. But the community has raised the bar so high that it strangles most people who aren't ready for that kind of demanding role. It's like taking Michael Jordan and setting him as the example by which all basketball players are to be judged.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

It's when they're yelled and screamed at, called names and vilified for not wanting to DPS

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I've only had someone complain at me once for (apparently) not DPSing as a healer, but it was in Qarn Normal (level 35-37), but I think he was just upset at me because I corrected him about something that he tried to tell the tank to do and was trolling because I actually did DPS as much as possible during that run lol

I've never seen others get harassed in any content so far for not DPSing as a healer....I mean I do play healer a lot myself and I do DPS on healer so I maybe haven't had opportunity I suppose?

Since I have no personal experience to base off of I was wondering how often you, or others in this thread, have come across healers being yelled/screamed at or called names for not DPSing?

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Originally Posted by Miste

Since I have no personal experience to base off of I was wondering how often you, or others in this thread, have come across healers being yelled/screamed at or called names for not DPSing?

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You obviously have not been around the forums much lol. It's all over on the forums, even in the healing section.

I main white mage and I am constantly DPSing and such, so I rarely get targeted by such. I'm also on a Japanese server where that sort of stuff isn't quite as commonplace. However, I did start off on Balmung and have seen some of it dished out to healers as I was leveling other jobs. I usually defend new healers, unless they are doing something terribly wrong, but I have seen some healers do the opposite too-- too much DPS and not enough healing.

Maybe yelled and screamed at is a little exaggerating as well, but people still are demeaning and put them down.

Got to agree, I think people make a bigger deal of this than it actually is.

Join a proper progression team, fail to do a basic opener ever and make no effort to put dots up on obvious safe windows and it'll get noticed. Some teams won't care, some teams might make a joke of it, some may take a dimmer view. If you're a rock of dependability for the team, chances are they are going to let it slide. If you're not that reliable or are difficult to raid with then it's going to be ammo for them to replace you.

For those that worry about this, I can vouch first hand that simply doing a decent opener and making an effort to keep your dots going where it's safe to do so is enough for the majority of groups out there. Just be realistic about your limitations, take responsibility for your errors, put some effort into improving your play and you'll do absolutely fine even at the highest standards of play.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

You obviously have not been around the forums much lol. It's all over on the forums, even in the healing section.

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No...I have been, but reading every post that happens in the forums is a bit hard on the eyes :/ not to mention the forums is not the whole community so while you might get stories here and there about healers being harassed it doesn't show really how often it occurs...

Which is why I wanted to ask how often you, or others in here, have seen it happen. I see tons of healers in-game who don't DPS at all and no one seems to ever bother them so I need to get info from others how many times they've seen a healer harassed for not DPSing because my tally is like 1 time out of around 5000 instances.

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Originally Posted by Miste

because my tally is like 1 time out of around 5000 instances.

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Yep, I've been booted from a savage raid once ever, depressingly it was A9S of all places, they actually cited my misses (Inflated due to my habit of meleeing where I can) since I was maintaining dots and doing a reasonable job of it given the circumstances. However, given that our best attempt was 2% at over 7 minutes with 4 deaths, my personal DPS most certainly wasn't the issue here. It was just easy ammo for the the static to rage over and mask their failings. By asking to switch from WHM to AST to solve my MP woes with the slow clear I suspect I simply put my head above the parapets at a bad time.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I need to get info from others how many times they've seen a healer harassed for not DPSing because my tally is like 1 time out of around 5000 instances.

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Never happened with me. Never harassed or seen someone harassing a healer for not dpsing in normal dungeon or trials.

The idea of healers and tank dps came from endgame. At minimum item level, Savage required massive dps check which needed both tank and healers to participate in dps.
There aren't any dps checks in normal dungeon or trials. Healer and tank dps in this situation only helps to speed run content.

You can be certain I'm bothering them. There's nothing worse than heading to a roulette, getting one of the longest, most chore-feeling dungeons possible and, low and behold, a Healer who mashes CureII's on tanks with 99% health rather than helping make this god-awful, brain-slushing mess go faster (and I say that as a WHM main), and people branding it all as 'Ok'. Healer priority is always Healing, but the longer the fight, the more Healing required. It is EVERYONE's responsibility to do whatever they can to help get the target(s) from 100% to 0%, not just the DPS. Yes, even tanks should be making a point of learning when they can squeeze in that little bit extra, or doing what they need to help improve efficiency, while the rest try to avoid uneccesary damage so the healer has more freedom etc etc round round the 'everyone help eachother' circle goes.

The whole 'it's not my responsibility' spiel is a lazy defence mechanism. Even in all the older, classic MMORPG's, just being a Healer doesn't mean you stand there picking your nose when you have nothing to do (and they had a lot more healing gibberish clustering up their archetypes and convoluting the process compared to FFXIV, which is quite simple - at least for some classes).

However, this does not excuse people's attitudes and lofty expectations. I have a very heated opinion of people who do the bare minimum and brand it as acceptable because, "hey, my role is X, I provided X, I did my job, I don't need to do more" - but that doesn't mean I'll flip a table and start being a douche. On a different note, Cleric Stance alterations are NOT the way to 'get more people healing', and if people don't want to be directly responsible for the welfare of other players, they shouldn't tank/heal in the first-place. I'd hate to think Square would dumb things down over a non-existent 'difficulty'.

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Originally Posted by Miste

No...I have been, but reading every post that happens in the forums is a bit hard on the eyes :/ not to mention the forums is not the whole community so while you might get stories here and there about healers being harassed it doesn't show really how often it occurs...

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Well there have been some threads regarding parsers and raid dps and such where healers are trash talked (raid and dungeon content) along with dps chars and that. And yeah, I know that the forums aren't representative of the in game player base, but you have to understand posts on places like youtube, reddit, 4chan, the forums here and that where people go for information might discourage players from being healers or contribute to players in game saying things to them. Being healers, ourselves, it's hard for us to see that first hand since you don't have many healers other than ourselves in content.

The only reason I bring it up is because it is a factor, small or large as it may be, and this thread is about how to get more people to play healers. I have limited knowledge these days of NA server happenings besides what I see on the forums and on the few FFXIV players on twitch/youtube I watch.