Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

If you're not chain healing a massive pull, you have time to DPS. It's not a strawman. You can also stop DPS'ing if you're about to put yourself in a critical MP state (It's a strawman to assume anybody is arguing OOMing yourself with DPS).

The 20/80 is based off a wonderful video that was created by someone in the healer forums and then analyzed and broken down. What it depicted was less than 20% of the time there was Healing casted during pulls, and 80% of the time was doing the Manderville Dance (/mdance).
It wasn't a random percentage pulled out of my ass ;). But that would have been based off your own assumption, wouldn't it?

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It's a strawman because I didn't say anything about chain-healing and you portray it as the only factor, which is not the only relevant consideration.

Though 20/80 is not what I usually do/see during dungeon runs. And there's a method that people use to approve what healer does dps-wise? I'd love to see it. Because it seems to me that it's just "dps or gtfo". Also you seem to be talking about dungeons, whereas what I see is the attitude that healers have to always dps whenever they're not healing, raids included. I see a lot of awfully un-specific blanket statements that people use to justify something they made-up themselves.

Edit:

Ok, looked at the video. Unless there are more that's a pretty small sample size. I admit that it happens, though my experience is generally not quite as smooth. And again, dungeon. Not Alex savage, not Zurvan ex, a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Atos

It's a strawman because I didn't say anything about chain-healing and you portray it as the only factor, which is not the only relevant consideration.

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Do I? I wonder if you've been reading the whole thread then, or if you kind of just popped in.

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Originally Posted by Atos

I can't find the video so can't say anything about it.

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It was reposted right on the page before this one by the person who originally made it.

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Originally Posted by Atos

Because it seems to me that it's just "dps or gtfo".

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I've never kicked someone from a dungeon for ZDPS, nor have I brought it up on the spot in a dungeon because most people have trouble attempting drastic changes on a dime. So I think you're absolutely mistaken here. I advocate on the forums because I believe the player base is capable of being better than what it is if educated on the benefits and lack of cons to DPS'ing as a healer in the games current state of low healer requirements.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

There's no difficult content in this game outside raids and the occasional extreme primal. If I see a healer that isn't dpsing in a dungeon, three thoughts come to mind.

1) They're being lazy. Some say that's them winding down from a long day, or chilling, or relaxing, etc.
2) They have anxiety or some sort of disability that prevents them from multi tasking. I've met quite a few healer mains who say this is a crippling issue, and I completely sympathize with this point (and why I never get agrressive with calling out a healer)
3) Not skilled enough. This, imo, is perfectly acceptable for any non endgame content.

Those who say they don't dps because their job is to heal are those who refuse to do anything but the bare minimum, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with your personal play style, your idea of what the game should be, or what yoshida envisioned. It has everything to do with how the game is mechanically structured and the play style it rewards: dps.

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There is a 4th option, that they simply do not find DPSing fun, and that is why they chose to heal.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

There is a 4th option, that they simply do not find DPSing fun, and that is why they chose to heal.

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But that's wrong, they chose a class to only use part of its kit. May I ask what is fun for you? how is pressing a key on a target for healing purposes different than pressing a key on a target for dps purposes? unless your answer is "so they do less", which is basically the discussion here.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

There is a 4th option, that they simply do not find DPSing fun, and that is why they chose to heal.

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If you don't find a job, in it's entirety, fun, don't play it. If I don't like pets, I don't pick SMN or SCH. If I don't like to support, I don't pick BRD or MCH.

It's not any more acceptable for a healer to ignore the useful abilities in their toolkit than it is for any other job. Healers shouldn't get a free pass just because they're called healers. They should be expected to participate just as much as the rest of their team mates and they should be expected to use their abilities in a way that's as useful as possible to their group just like everyone else in the party.

the only comment i have on this whole thread is me in a tank perspective. As long as im alive, the group is alive and we arent in danger of wiping any time soon, if you as a healer want to dps feel free. The boss is gonna die anyway with or without healer dps. Id rather they focus on their primary role first and secondary role 2nd. If I or anyone in my group dies because you as a healer was dpsing, then we have an issue here.

That said, threads like this one are more cancerous to this game than any healer not dpsing imo

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Originally Posted by Taika

... My question is, why is it good enough participation from a healer to only use 1-3 abilities every minute, while this would not be accepted for a tank or DD? The only argument I've seen for this for now has basically been "it's ok for them because their jobs are called healers", which just isn't very convincing.

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Because people always take it to the next level and start demanding that you always dps when not healing. And as I've said before, you get new players that adopt that mentality from the get-go and start turd-flinging without a clue. If a healer does nothing else they'll dps naturally, or not, who cares. It's what this type of mentality evolves into that causes problems. I've played DPS, tank and heals in raids, and heal dps is never an issue if you just want to clear/progress through instance. It's only an issue when people make it an issue.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

But that's wrong, they chose a class to only use part of its kit. May I ask what is fun for you? how is pressing a key on a target for healing purposes different than pressing a key on a target for dps purposes? unless your answer is "so they do less", which is basically the discussion here.

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I never said it was me. I acknowledged that some people don't find entertainment in DPSing and choose to play a healer for this reason.

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Originally Posted by Taika

If you don't find a job, in it's entirety, fun, don't play it. If I don't like pets, I don't pick SMN or SCH. If I don't like to support, I don't pick BRD or MCH.

It's not any more acceptable for a healer to ignore the useful abilities in their toolkit than it is for any other job. Healers shouldn't get a free pass just because they're called healers. They should be expected to participate just as much as the rest of their team mates and they should be expected to use their abilities in a way that's as useful as possible to their group just like everyone else in the party.

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That's not a very good comparison. There is no alternative to play if you don't like DPS. Healer is the only job that fits that role. If you don't like pets and want to DPS, there are other options available to you.

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Originally Posted by Atos

Because people always take it to the next level and start demanding that you always dps when not healing.

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And what's the issue with that? As a healer, when no one is in any danger (and you should know it as all fights are scripted), what else is there to do but DPS? It's a choice of 1) DPS, 2) do nothing at all, or 3) do something useless (overheal or spam Stoneskin over and over or something). There is only one correct choice here (unless you're in a very specific situation in which the best thing you can do for your group is to do nothing or do unnecessary overhealing, which can happen, but is rare).

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Originally Posted by Atos

And as I've said before, you get new players that adopt that mentality from the get-go and start turd-flinging without a clue.

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This is a slippery slope argument, and also a strawman. No one is advocating healer play that puts DPS before keeping your party members safe. The argument is, 1) when you know your party members are safe and don't need healing, do DPS, and 2) required healing in majority of the fights is so low that there is almost always room for healer DPS.

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Originally Posted by Atos

I've played DPS, tank and heals in raids, and heal dps is never an issue if you just want to clear/progress through instance.

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Are you claiming that it's been possible in this game to complete Alexander Savage raids without any healer DPS when they've been released? Because I'd like to see a group like that for sure. :)

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

There is no alternative to play if you don't like DPS. Healer is the only job that fits that role. If you don't like pets and want to DPS, there are other options available to you.

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Unfortunately, since every single job in this game is very DPS focused, if you don't like to DPS, this game probably isn't for you. There also isn't room for alternative play styles for any job in this game, since the design is so straightforward and there's only one effective way to play each job. You can't really play a pure support BRD or pure healing healer and be an effective party member even if you wanted to. You can ask for changes in game design, but there's no point in asking changes for "play styles", when current design doesn't allow for any.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

... I believe the player base is capable of being better than what it is if educated on the benefits and lack of cons to DPS'ing as a healer in the games current state of low healer requirements.

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Yeah well that's not what I'm seeing. I don't see a lot of "educating" going on, more like berating. Can't be bothered to count how many posts I've seen that mentioned kicking people out of the party for not following this arbitrary standard they're trying to impose.