Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Is that such a bad thing? Like, I obviously get the appeal of gauging situations to gamble on what the best investment will be for ultimately consequent rDPS, and in having a larger range of options therein (from pure defensive to pure offensive), but as it stands, would it be so bad for MP to just be a means of making DRK's apm/dps that much more flexible (offensive), or having exceedingly granular control over its sustain (defensive)?

If you reintroduce Dark Arts as an MP spender capable of offensive value, too, it makes little to no sense to leave Edge and Flood, just due to the sheer button-inefficiency of it.

If you then want more animations, moreover, that can still be accomplished just by replacing the single buffing action with any of various follow-up actions determined by one's most recent action, each with their own animation (SE->DA looks like Scourge and adds a DoT; CnS->DA launches forward a second self in a whirling flurry of shadowy blades; Syphon->DA steals buffs from nearby enemies; TNB->DA explodes the shield for damage based its damage absorbed; etc., etc.).

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Not at all, if I had the choice Dark Arts would be purely offensive and ideally MP usage and its regeneration on DRK would be revamped for more a bit more frequent usage (ideally, enough to use one or two DA during filler but high enough to burst, given the current burst-meta). To tack onto this, I would prefer to axe edge and flood in place for bringing back old GCD's through Dark Arts.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I wouldn't be opposed, but I also don't see what difference it'd make apart from our not having it available on pull and making it punish downtime more?

If anything, I'd like to see such a gauge be used on our otherwise CDs for which any flexibility would otherwise just add to the gap between apm peaks and lulls, such as Shadowbringer and maybe one other skill that could interestingly compete with it, but even that doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

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I neglected to mention this, but ideally there would be an ability or method otherwise to use it on pull. That would mean there would be at least 2 per every 2-minute depending on the gauge cap (although, I don't see them making the cap 50 instead of 100 because of over-capping)

I wonder what DRK players' thoughts would be if the devs scrapped Plunge altogether and gained a movement tool that wasn't tied to damage, like Ingress/Egress? I feel like tanks are well behind the curve when it comes to mobility tools.

Variety in animation
Please, if you add skills that you can throw 3 times or more in a row, they may be different animations or attack moves, for example the WAR, PLD, DRK have an ability that can be repeated several times it would be good if they had at least two or three animation variations so that a skill is not so boring thanks.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I wonder what DRK players' thoughts would be if the devs scrapped Plunge altogether and gained a movement tool that wasn't tied to damage, like Ingress/Egress? I feel like tanks are well behind the curve when it comes to mobility tools.

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I don't mind gap closers having damage tied to them, I do mind when it becomes a "use in your rotation" otherwise you lose overall dps. The simple fix would be to just tie them to the GCD, since at that point, they would be specifically used as a gap closer. It goes without saying that this change ideally would not cancel where you currently are in your combo.

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Originally Posted by Griphyt

Variety in animation
Please, if you add skills that you can throw 3 times or more in a row, they may be different animations or attack moves, for example the WAR, PLD, DRK have an ability that can be repeated several times it would be good if they had at least two or three animation variations so that a skill is not so boring thanks.

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Honestly, Paladin gets a pass for me simply because of the confiteor combo.

Fell Cleave is leagues more satisfying than Bloodspiller ever was, even before the change to spam it until we're beyond sick of it. WAR also gets Primal Rend. It kinda fits WAR's identity.

DRK, on the other hand, has plenty of animations they removed that everyone loved that they could use for multiple purposes, so they have options.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I wonder what DRK players' thoughts would be if the devs scrapped Plunge altogether and gained a movement tool that wasn't tied to damage, like Ingress/Egress? I feel like tanks are well behind the curve when it comes to mobility tools.

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I would like for them to remove the damage from plunge and change the unmend trait. They can put that dps into shadowbringer or bloodspiller.

I'd only be fine with it if DRK got some other 2x charge 30s oGCD.

Theres already enough downtime after a burst window as it is.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I'd only be fine with it if DRK got some other 2x charge 30s oGCD.

Theres already enough downtime after a burst window as it is.

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Agree, but I'd say it needs something on a 30s CD regardless. Plunge doesn't really help the downtime feel any less boring

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I wonder what DRK players' thoughts would be if the devs scrapped Plunge altogether and gained a movement tool that wasn't tied to damage, like Ingress/Egress? I feel like tanks are well behind the curve when it comes to mobility tools.

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I would take it a step further and make tank gap closers role actions at 2 charges with no dmg in addition to Backstep from Eureka/Bozja. It would free up that slot for tanks and also give them access to a disengage that all other melees have (even some casters have it like RDM). They can even combine it so that the dash procs the backstep similar to how RPR works. That way you get a dash and the option to disengage all in one button to help with button bloat. You can even do some shenanigans in dungeon pulls where you dash to a mob, turn around, backstep to move closer to next mobs, then dash towards them and backstep again in the same way some DRG use elusive jump as a "gap closer".

Currently, gap closers are only used as ogcds fillers and rarely used for their "gap closing" ever since they increased the boss hit box size to be accessible at all times. Gap closers have more or less become redundant and its just another ogcd now. The only way I would keep gap closers as they are is if the savage version of the fight has a smaller hit box that is reflective of the boss' actual size but that would require them to leave the ranged tax on but I digress.

Gap closing in melee range just looks dumb to me as you are literally dashing in place.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

I would take it a step further and make tank gap closers role actions at 2 charges with no dmg in addition to Backstep from Eureka/Bozja. It would free up that slot for tanks and also give them access to a disengage that all other melees have (even some casters have it like RDM). They can even combine it so that the dash procs the backstep similar to how RPR works.

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I honestly dislike this idea. Not necessarily because I am against something being done with gap closers on tanks, you are right that they are basically just a bit of extra potency in burst right now.

My opposition to this is more fundamental, simply because role actions have no class identity in their either function or visuals. If I could choose, I would make individual tank up closers more unique rather than do what you suggest. We could have for example, like the post you were replying to suggested, directional dash on Dark Knight, Paladin’s intervention could be targettable at allies and enemies, and if used on ally it could make Paladin take 50% of the target's next hit in their stead, and just move you to enemy if used on a hostile target. Then warrior could have a ground target leap, and gunbreaker keeps potency attack as theirs.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I'd only be fine with it if DRK got some other 2x charge 30s oGCD.

Theres already enough downtime after a burst window as it is.

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This is why I want Salted Earth to have 45s CD. It wouldn't affect burst, since it would still only align in opener and then at 6th minute, but you would periodically get another set of 2 actions outside of burst.

Ngl I feel like Warrior did the gapcloser conundrum the best before Endwalker with Onslaught being close to if not straight up damage neutral vs standard Fell Cleave usage.

Gapclosers having damage isn't a bad thing, but being completely unrestricted is another issue. Which is why I don't understand why they made Onslaught simply Plunge copy #3 instead of making system changes to make the other gapclosers more like Onslaught. (side rant, it made Bozja's Lost Blood Rage complete garbage with that change)

Or giving gapclosers an effect like "can't be enhanced by damage boosting effects", which would be "boring" but would solve the necessity of pressing them in buff windows for optimal play without sacrificing the damage portion of it.