But this was about mentor roulette, where you can get pretty much anything and might get some old ARR ex primal synced that no one remembers how to do synced anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
Stopping to watch a video for that isn't super practical.
-
03-10-2018, 08:54 PMTridus
-
03-10-2018, 09:08 PMMavriasI mean, having multiple 70s won't stop you from being one shot if you don't remember the difference between bow form and staff form and youre synced down to 50. Theres not much excuse for dps failing the check but the tank thing is somewhat forgiveable. Can I ask why you chose to do it through duty finder instead of PF?Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-10-2018, 09:29 PMSeseraI guess she found your lala cute and wanted to make you her pet. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Madeen_Est
-
03-10-2018, 10:01 PMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by Tridus
Tactic > practicality, though one could very easily argue that Tactic is part of being pragmatic. -
03-10-2018, 10:04 PMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
I wasn't talking about sync level, I was talking about tactic. From people not standing in the right spots, to dps not passing the check. It was bad on all fronts.
Also I was running through all the trials for items I might have missed for other classes. Never really required PF since damn near all pugs I run into, do them just fine. Statistically I had to run into a group of morons eventually....and now I lament about them on here....Good times. -
03-10-2018, 10:10 PMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by sakkito
Here's the fun part about all of that...not one of them got online, got on youtube and typed Haukke Manor run. So adults (I presume), found a way to pay for a game, with their credit card, install said game onto the PC they bought and or assembled, and not do research. Paying to lose in a game on your own volition is never excusable to me. -
03-10-2018, 10:25 PMMavriasYou know no one looks up guides for dungeons in ffxiv right? Especially not easy leveling dungeons. Additionally, nothing wrong with that run had anything to do with not knowing the dungeon and had everything to do with the drk not knowwing how to hold aggro well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-10-2018, 10:59 PMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
Plenty of youtube vids on dungeon runs get views, so clearly someone is looking up guides. The point is that everyone should stay informed, especially healers and tanks. I don't coddle ignorance. -
03-10-2018, 11:35 PMMavrias...? Again, that experience had... Nothing to do with knowing the dungeon or not. That was tank inexperience with low level tanking and potentially someone trying healer out for the first time or just cutting their losses with a tank they were having trouble working with.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-10-2018, 11:45 PMSeseraSome people don't want to be spoiled by looking a video of the dungeon before stepping in.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-10-2018, 11:49 PMNephthysVasudanFinally...someone said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesera
Generally most dungeons just require paying attention....common sense..and knowing your role.
Youtube honestly has spoiled too many people and lead to elitism overkill.
I don't deny its use-fullness..but honestly the times I chose to use a video....only made it worse. -
03-11-2018, 12:05 AMsakkitoIt was also a monk who was running ahead of the tank pulling (even at the start he just run off to the side room engaging mobs not seeing that tank bypassed it running ahead). Healer who was more keen on following and healing up the monk instead of tank and she liked to let him lay low with hp, so I used ‘erase’ every single occasion it was off cooldown.I do have healers levelled and I always stick to the tank (if tank is going in wrong direction I write message) and I really try not to let the tank loose more than half hp and definitely not the one as new as this one visibly was. The tank well, everyone learns somewhere and I would be fine but I don’t get why he didn’t write at the beginning that he is new to tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
I posted it because it was first time when I had all players that I could say that were not team players at all. If someone is new I am all for helping out with advice or at least I am good with just adjusting to the tank I have as he is the shield between me and the mobs. But if person is new should state it. He did listen to the advice given (grit and dark side) and he did improve with time. I had bigger annoyment issue with the monk who kept on pulling (and not even bringing gifts back to the tank) And then healer who even if New to healing was ok with keeping new person eating the floor in the last boss even if I don’t think we would manage it without him. At least we did not wipe and we did finish in standard 20 min time -
03-11-2018, 12:19 AMTridusAnd that's it, we've officially reached peak "elitism". When a steaming cesspool of human waste like Youtube is capable of causing elitism, the word has lost all meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
People seem to think that watching a video is intended to let you immediately master everything and then complain when it doesn't work. It's not. Never has been. The point is so that when you fail a mechanic, you have some idea of what that mechanic was and can go to the "how do we avoid that" step instead of the "what just happened?" step. That's it.Quote:
I don't deny its use-fullness..but honestly the times I chose to use a video....only made it worse.
Pretty useful on something like Ex and Savage where there's lots of mechanics and you're not going to be able to clear the whole thing the first time you go in just by common sense and healing through it. You can do that in dungeons typically, and aside from that one guy in this thread I've never heard of people advocating for mandatory youtube before going into the next MSQ dungeon. -
03-11-2018, 12:59 AMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by Sesera
Hit the wiki...cliff notes.
Again, I never had anything spoiled for me since I read and pay attention to cutscenes in the game. -
03-11-2018, 01:00 AMSavageCipherMade it worse? You're over exaggerating I'm sure, or you were very bad in those instances. I haven't ran into any problems both tanking and healing while looking up guides.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
-
03-11-2018, 01:04 AMSavageCipherNo one said anything about mastering anything. Becoming a stellar tank and or healer is all about time. But common sense and or tactic is all about research. Imagine if Sun Tzu said "Yeah lets just wing it, what could happen?" While I enjoyed the laugh, its sad that research and or the advice in doing so, is looked down upon. You coddle ineptitude, and that's fine, but don't say it like its something righteous or endearing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tridus
-
03-11-2018, 01:10 AMSindele
Expecting people to do research on the mechanics for a regular ol' 4 man dungeon is one of the funniest things I've heard all week, so at least you've got that going for you.
-
03-11-2018, 01:15 AMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by Sindele
People die constantly on "ol 4 man dungeons" both on normal and hard. What's not to understand? People need help, everyone isn't an MMO savant, and that's expected. But you make it sound like all these vids and wiki's don't have millions of views....nice try? -
03-11-2018, 01:16 AMNephthysVasudan
Time for you to take a break....you're ego tripping like an elitist.
-
03-11-2018, 01:17 AMSavageCipherQuote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
That applies to a more than a few people on here....lest not we call the kettle's black. -
03-11-2018, 01:29 AMNedkel
Have just meet a black mage at lvl 50 dungeon who never used any aoe ability, at least it looked like it and he was wearing shire eq, so i guess he bought a jump potion.
He was casting thin purple projectile and the purple "ball" projectile all the time.
@edit
Looking at the BM abilities i am sure he was using thunder 1 or 2, and he was using it on one target before it die so yea... And i believe a fire 1 or 2, because i havent seen an aoe effect of fire 3.
I didnt want to tell him about using any aoe because i have no clue how black mage is working at that lvl, but it really wasnt looking good, when i pulled first 3 groups of mobs in the lost city of amdapor and it took us 5 minutes to kill them, wow. And entire dungeon took over 35 minutes, and seriously i have no idea how we beat the diabolos there without executing the mechanics, reprisal i used each time the big beam happened probably saved this run and the healer was good, but was not able to keep black mage alive, he was lying on the ground basically all the time. xD
It took me less time to do it with my FC without a healer pulling 1 group at time and wiped 3 times in a row (we forgot to get a healer XD) than that one.
That was unique experience to say the least i never expect anything from a players who bought a jump potion, but i would never guess someone will buy it and play the class using 2 spells entire time, oh well. -
03-11-2018, 01:33 AMSindeleThere's a stark difference between people independently finding them useful and someone expecting everyone to have done so.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-11-2018, 01:39 AMMavriasI assure you, if people are dying "constantly" in your dungeon runs, you might want to adjust your playstyle as a healer, to put it mildly. If you run into a scrub in the morning, you ran into a scrub. If you run into scrubs all day, you're probably the scrub.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-11-2018, 01:43 AMNephthysVasudanSad but true. The kind of attitude Savage is reflecting is toxic as it is. Time to change your mindset....or you will be miserable and make other players miserable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
-
03-11-2018, 01:49 AMAwhaIf people are dying constantly on you as a healer why not just adjust and help prevent them from dying? Truth be told a healer can be a hard carry so show off your skills and carry the group to victory. You got this fam.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
Not saying that people should be looking for carries, but from personal experience I have found that when you run into a mess of a group it is a lot easier to simply adjust for the group clear it and forget about said group. Venting is cool, but when you start to feel like that people should look up guides for old 4 man content might want to take a step back. Since in the end most boss mechanics can be explained fairly quickly in chat and can help avoid a lot of headaches. Outside of instant kill mechanics as a healer you do have a lot of control on the success of the group just use those groups to flex. -
03-11-2018, 01:57 AMTexa
I was in Void Ark earlier and noticed that someone managed to die outside of the barrier on Echidna.
https://i.imgur.com/2hWEemG.jpg
I was so mystified as to how that could happen, but then I noticed they were a DRG.
Mystery solved! -
03-11-2018, 02:00 AMSeseraI never see people dying constantly so maybe try use more physick instead of broil.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
Just because some people chose to look up some guide doesn't mean everybody has to.
And one more point about guide they are pretty useless for roulette because you have no idea what duty awaits you. -
03-11-2018, 02:05 AMHyoMinParkI don’t think there is much reason to look up video guides for your first 4-man dungeon run. If you are new, just say so. If you want mechanics explained to you, ask. I’ve never ran into anyone ever who expected players to watch videos/read guides on leveling or expert dungeons. They all end up being—more or less—copy-pastes of each other anyways, and rarely punishing in the sense that one needs to have a pre-queue study session on them like they would like to do for Savage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
The guides exist, and I’m sure people do view them, but there isn’t much reason to make that a must-do before queuing in. Not in the same sense that you would want to read up on mechanics for Savage or an Ex primal.
Also, whoever said YouTube breeds elitism...what. Just...what. I can understand in the context of asking a player to review a guide for a leveling dungeon...because there is no need for that; the dungeons are easy enough one or two bad players can be carried by the rest (though that is certainly not ideal, but it’s the truth). But for something like Savage or an Extreme? Unless the group is cool with blind runs, at least look up a text guide that provides a brief overview of mechanics/notable attacks the boss executes (I did this when I stepped into V8S for the first time because I had no idea what to expect beforehand other than his mechanics have the same truth-mechanic to them that normal mode has, albeit more strict). Or have someone on-hand who can explain them well as you encounter them so that you aren’t a hinderance to the group, even if it is a learning party.
Educating yourself, and asking others to do the same for something on the levels of Savage/Extremes if they want to be in your party, is hardly elitism. -
03-11-2018, 02:42 AMMoroMurasakiI understand your frustration in general, most of those guides are like 3 minutes long so if they avoid even one wipe they were worth watching. When I started back in early HW I looked up guides for everything I did before I did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
That being said in SB I'm a fair bit more confident and outside of EX/Savage I've run everything blind. It wasn't an option at first as someone performing things on release either, I think doing Rabamastre blind was a big step towards me being more confident and able to step away from guides.
This most certainly isn't "elitism", more just you wishing for everyone to have a respectable investment in the game. I think people just like to say elitist now as a way to dismiss anything they don't like that implies a modicum of effort, I wouldn't worry about it. I get that and in a sense feel the same way. As a healer main take comfort in the fact that no one will be able to carry a group stumbling their way through better than you can. -
03-11-2018, 02:46 AMNedkelYou are taking this game way too seriously under lvl 70 and you expect from newbies waaaay too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
For the most part, they have no idea how they are playing, a big part of them just jumped into the game from console and have a hard time even controlling what they are doing.
The only way you could make your runs better is to make your skills better, there is no other way. Watch few guides for the healers, dont drop heals before enmity will stabilize on a tank, do some dps in the meanwhile but keep in mind the sprout icon next to the nick name, if you see it you cant expect anything from the person, literally anything.
Its your everyday experience at the sub lvl 70 content, at lvl 70 the things changeover by 180 degrees.
Why is it like that? Because the content that was originally late game few years ago now is for lvling, and SE have no clue how to even balance it out for newcomers who dont even know how to jump on the controller. They are easy for someone who is familiar with it, under lvl 50 its super easy but at 50-60 newbies just cant handle some of the duties.
The lvling is way too fast for someone to learn anything while having 5 dungeons runs at total.
Adding new content and increasing lvl cap didnt help the game to welcome newcomers like at all. -
03-11-2018, 03:33 AMHestzhyen
Why are people expecting others to watch guides for leveling dungeons? That's absolutely absurd. Leveling dungeons, especially the ARR ones, are where players learn how to play the game with other people. What happened to helping people figure things out as they go? Expecting a newbie to watch a 3 minute guide before they step into content designed to be a hands-on learning experience is ridiculous. If you're experienced and they're struggling, help them out. If they don't listen, tough break but you'll probably still clear anyway and then you'll never see them again.
I can see watching a guide after you've failed a mechanic in a savage fight a few times - I've had to do that. But telling people they have to watch a guide for anything below that level of difficulty is outrageous. -
03-11-2018, 04:35 AMJohnnyDevoThe only time I'll ask someone to do research is when the rest of the members have cleared an ex or savage fight already and we're helping that person learn it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
Half of my fun with our static is going in blind and solving the fight ourselves, instead of letting world prog raiders do it for us.
And finally, the meat of the issue: Anything below extreme does not need research. At all. -
03-11-2018, 04:39 AMKakikoMan, you sound fun to run things with..........Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-11-2018, 08:11 AMSavageCipherMainly its how people respond to the advice of getting research...Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
Only on these boards... is doing research seen as "elitism".
https://media.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/giphy.gif -
03-11-2018, 08:33 AMDriskus
Honestly, nothing in normal mode content is even difficult enough to warrant saying anybody "must" look up a guide. I've went 100% blind into everything I've done since SB released and haven't had issues. Royal Menagerie included. Its really not hard at all to figure things out on the fly. Even went into Jade Stoa Normal the other day and mentioned I was going in blind. A couple people panicked like it was going to be a wipefest, but it wasn't. Didn't even die once.
-
03-11-2018, 09:00 AMEorzeaHero69If people are dying constantly, then it's either the tank's fault for not mitigating damage if pulling big mobs and holding hate if they're not doing enough enmity generating abilities, or the healer's fault for not healing the tank enough to keep them alive, the latter I see happen more frequently than the former.Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageCipher
-
03-11-2018, 09:33 AMAmetrine
Most players like to go in blind, tease it out, ask questions. That's how people figure stuff out in the first place to even make guides.
Not sure why that's the lesser option to some people when like.... at least 9 out of 10 players do exactly that and the game is doing fine. -
03-11-2018, 11:49 AMIscah
I feel like being required to do out-of-game research to successfully proceed within a game is a failure of the game design, not the players.
Maybe not so much for high-level play (unless as a group you want to work it out from scratch) but simply for making it through the game, so long as you understand the basics of how to play, things should be intuitive enough that you can understand how to act - or if you got it wrong, what happened so you can learn from it. -
03-11-2018, 12:20 PMSlogDog
Its really simple; if you learn and can adjust to things, know all the reused mechanics square throws everywhere and are basically an "Okay" player then don't watch a video, enjoy. If you are a poor player who will die to the same simple mechanic multiple times watch a video.
Just because you're new doesn't mean people will appreciate you making a 9 min ex 20, and when that new player bonus doesn't pop up at the start they will be even less understanding.
There is a reason topics about improving the player base are popping up more and more. Coddling is becoming an epidemic. -
03-11-2018, 12:34 PMShouko
So apparently the new thing is not to avoid AoE but to make sure you stand in it so your healer aka me can do 3x the extra work in POTD, not even random players but my own FC all at pretty experienced players. There was no effort to avoid aoe, turning on pot blind, use any of the pomades, etc. I could see if they didn't like me or they were doing it as a joke but this went far beyond either of those, they didn't even say anything when I said lets avoid the aoe so I don't have to keep healing/raising, no real response.