[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

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Originally Posted by ispano

And what would you do if he wasn't doing those things? If what he was arguing was purely legit and all you were doing is making false assumptions?

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Then... I wouldn't be laughing at him? (shrug) lol I have no idea what you want here.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

(hangs head) Yes, yes I am. I have no excuse. What can I say? lol

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Technically the next step would be to admit that you're "trolling". But I've never actually seen anyone do that.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Then... I wouldn't be laughing at him? (shrug) lol I have no idea what you want here.

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I asked what you would do, not what you would have done. You have no evidence that the reasons you are assaulting him are true. You only believe it. Now if you could PROVE it, that would be different.

In other words it means you're acting like a child.

This whole time I wasn't attacking abby, he just "considered" it attacking to his critria of how he determines "attacking". Just like any other opinion I speak my own opinion and how I either agree or disagree, I actually agree with Abby with certain things such as the application page should have been very clear and SE sticking to their word, that much I agree with Abby.

What I don't agree with is that him repeating the same thing over and over again. If SE were to do anything about this thread... they would have done it by now. We as "potential" customers can only do so much, and I feel this thread as well as other duplicate threadds of this nature has ran it's course as it's not getting SE to do much of anything about the situation at hand.

I respect Abby for trying to go above and beyond to try to get SE to see this is a potential problem for beta if not solved. However, in this almost 1,500 post thread with almost half of the posts is from abby, and they still haven't responded to it 3 weeks later. Don't you think it's time to throw in the towel?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

This whole time I wasn't attacking abby, he just "considered" it attacking to his critria of how he determines "attacking". Just like any other opinion I speak my own opinion and how I either agree or disagree, I actually agree with Abby with certain things such as the application page should have been very clear and SE sticking to their word, that much I agree with Abby.

What I don't agree with is that him repeating the same thing over and over again. If SE were to do anything about this thread... they would have done it by now. We as "potential" customers can only do so much, and I feel this thread as well as other duplicate threadds of this nature has ran it's course as it's not getting SE to do much of anything about the situation at hand.

I respect Abby for trying to go above and beyond to try to get SE to see this is a potential problem for beta if not solved. However, in this almost 1,500 post thread with almost half of the posts is from abby, and they still haven't responded to it 3 weeks later. Don't you think it's time to throw in the towel?

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No Starlord, what you were doing is commonly called attacking.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

This whole time I wasn't attacking abby, he just "considered" it attacking to his critria of how he determines "attacking". Just like any other opinion I speak my own opinion and how I either agree or disagree, I actually agree with Abby with certain things such as the application page should have been very clear and SE sticking to their word, that much I agree with Abby.

What I don't agree with is that him repeating the same thing over and over again. If SE were to do anything about this thread... they would have done it by now. We as "potential" customers can only do so much, and I feel this thread as well as other duplicate threadds of this nature has ran it's course as it's not getting SE to do much of anything about the situation at hand.

I respect Abby for trying to go above and beyond to try to get SE to see this is a potential problem for beta if not solved. However, in this almost 1,500 post thread with almost half of the posts is from abby, and they still haven't responded to it 3 weeks later. Don't you think it's time to throw in the towel?

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Half the posts are from Abby because he's responding to you guys.

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Originally Posted by ispano

I asked what you would do, not what you would have done. You have no evidence that the reasons you are assaulting him are true. You only believe it. Now if you could PROVE it, that would be different.

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Actually there's evidence (in this very forum) that I never did quite a few of the things he accused me of (like calling everyone that disagrees with me fanboys, or comparing my exclusion from the alpha to the sinking of the Titanic for instance). Which is worse I guess.

I'm starting to wonder if he isn't just mistaking me for someone else, because his accusations are getting more and more fairy tale-ish.

He did not get into alpha, he is buthurt understandable prolly alot ppl are. Playing the game was no guarantee to get into alpha, nor will it be guaranteed ppl that did not get into alpha will make it into beta.

He is always talking about a big part of actuall community did not get into alpha this is bullshit cause he doesnt even know how big it is you can just guess. All you know is about some friends and ppl posting in some forums but that is not the community it is only a small part of it.

You don't know how many ppl are in alpha right now or have been at all since start all you do is guessing and continue to cry cause you and a few others are not in. And your problem seems to be that you think SE needs to invite you cause your feedback is so much better then others....

Yor are freakin buthurt cause others can play and you can't!

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Originally Posted by ispano

I asked what you would do, not what you would have done. You have no evidence that the reasons you are assaulting him are true. You only believe it. Now if you could PROVE it, that would be different.

In other words it means you're acting like a child.

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No evidence? Try reading his posts sometime. lol If you and Abby want to pretend they're nothing more than ranting, crying, and ineffective temper tantrums with a poor disguise at being "constructive well-thought out criticisms) then go ahead. To each his own. But unfortunately, you can't get me to go along with that. I have two eyes. I can read. lol

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

No evidence? Try reading his posts sometime. lol If you and Abby want to pretend they're nothing more than ranting, crying, and ineffective temper tantrums with a poor disguise at being "constructive well-thought out criticisms) then go ahead. To each his own. But unfortunately, you can't get me to go along with that. I have two eyes. I can read. lol

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I have read every post in this thread just about, his make my brain hurt less than most. Here's the thing, is it entirely possible he's upset over not being invited? Yes. Is the opposite also true? Yes. Can either of us prove it either way? No. So all we have to go on is what he posts, and those posts are well thought out. Which is contrary to what most "butthurt" people post, so i'm inclined to see it not as whining. So unless you can prove it, you're just assaulting him.

On that note, anyone in a proper debate must be whiners, correct?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

This whole time I wasn't attacking abby, he just "considered" it attacking to his critria of how he determines "attacking". Just like any other opinion I speak my own opinion and how I either agree or disagree, I actually agree with Abby with certain things such as the application page should have been very clear and SE sticking to their word, that much I agree with Abby.

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When you shift the negative discourse from the topic to the person, it's generally called "attacking". It's not my criteria. It's the dictionary.

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I respect Abby for trying to go above and beyond to try to get SE to see this is a potential problem for beta if not solved. However, in this almost 1,500 post thread with almost half of the posts is from abby

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Almost half? Boy I wouldn't want to be your math teacher :rolleyes: My posts here are a much smaller fraction, and 99% of them are just answers to other posts.

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and they still haven't responded to it 3 weeks later. Don't you think it's time to throw in the towel?

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I don't really care about giving up on things I believe on. It's simply not my style. If they'll listen, good. if they won't, it's ok. It's no reason to stop caring or trying.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Apology accepted. I offer criticism with no expectation or demand of it being considered or adopted. If they will consider it, great. If they won't, at the very least I tried.

Considering how many suggestions i and other gave for this game and the next, and the percentage of them that are actually adopted, we do a TON of things for naught on this forum. It's really no reason not to let our voice be heard.

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Yeah, that's the thing. We all know they listen to us and that it's important for us to share our concerns. So I'm not trying to stifle your voicing your concerns or ideas, but I am saying to pick your battles especially when it seems like you could be biased. From what I've read, and I don't deny maybe the wrong impression was gotten, you just sound like you wouldn't have done any this had you been selected for alpha when you wanted. If they had picked you during that first wave, would you still have been here asking them to contemplate their selection process?

Are you playing Alpha yet? My issue is that getting in was always a dice roll AGAINST one's favor. The only thing I thought was a little retarded was how they sent invites to inactives and people who may not even be on the radar for this game. You say they should cater to this and that, and reward loyalty etc. But that's really not how this works. Never has been.

I don't think it's a valid point to criticize I guess, aside from what I mentioned.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

He did not get into alpha, he is butthurt. Understandable, probably a lot of people are. Playing the game was no guarantee to get into alpha, nor will it be guaranteed that people who did not get into alpha will make it into beta.

He is always talking about a big part of actual community did not get into alpha this is bullshit cause he doesn't even know how big it is you can just guess. All you know is about some friends and people posting in some forums but that is not the community it is only a small part of it.

You don't know how many people are in alpha right now or have been at all since the start. All you do is guess and continue to cry because you and a few others are not in. And your problem seems to be that you think SE needs to invite you cause your feedback is so much better then others....

You're are freakin' butthurt cause others can play and you can't!

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I'm sorry, nothing against you. I understand if English isn't your first language, I just really had to clean that up. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Technically the next step would be to admit that you're "trolling". But I've never actually seen anyone do that.

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LOL Who says I can't? Yes, I am trolling Abby. I'm trolling him because he's an irrational, angry, butthurt individual who can't really look at another person's view being different from his as anything more than "being a fanboy" and "personal attacks". Heck, before I actually started "personal attacks", he was accusing me of doing so, as well as calling names and ranting against SE and anyone who doesn't see things the way he does. Yo ucan't really have a productive debate with someone like that. So yes, I started making fun of him for it. "Trolling" him for it, as it were. It was fun. Until a mod came, declared the lulz to be no more, and shut down the thread. lol

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Originally Posted by ispano

No Starlord, what you were doing is commonly called attacking.

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If that's what you think, that wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if I "offended" anyone but all I hae said were merely opinions. If you want to call , it attacking thats on you. But it was far from it.

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Originally Posted by ispano

I have read every post in this thread just about, his make my brain hurt less than most. Here's the thing, is it entirely possible he's upset over not being invited? Yes. Is the opposite also true? Yes. Can either of us prove it either way? No. So all we have to go on is what he posts, and those posts are well thought out. Which is contrary to what most "butthurt" people post, so i'm inclined to see it not as whining. So unless you can prove it, you're just assaulting him.

On that note, anyone in a proper debate must be whiners, correct?

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Not really. But then again, you have to know how to debate properly.

Good for you, if Abby's posts make your brain "hurt less than most". But to me, they make me laugh more than most. Like I sad, if you want to just pretend his rants are well thought out intelligent criticism, then go ahead. But I can't get on that bus with you, sorry. lol

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Originally Posted by Starlord

If that's what you think, that wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if I "offended" anyone but all I hae said were merely opinions. If you want to call , it attacking thats on you. But it was far from it.

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No, not by me, by the world at large. Debating against him is one thing, but some of the things you said are actually attacking him as opposed to the argument.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

It was fun. Until a mod came, declared the lulz to be no more, and shut down the thread. lol

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Oh. my. god.

That was you! I had forgotten. Well done! I don't really endorse trolling but that was hilarious getting a GM in there.

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Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

Oh. my. god.

That was you! I had forgotten. Well done! I don't really endorse trolling but that was hilarious getting a GM in there.

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Yeah. lol. When I realized a healthy, intelligent debate wasn't going to happen, I just deided to hav some fun. Unfortunately, I had a little too much fun, and the thread was nuked. Speaking of which, I better lay off poor Abby for a bit before a GM shows up and kills it. I've got Christmas shopping to do anyway.

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Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

If they had picked you during that first wave, would you still have been here asking them to contemplate their selection process?

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Absolutely. You'll notice that I almost never talk about me. My problem is and has always been that they left out a sizable part of the active customer base (how big? we don't know, but it certainly is sizable from what we can see), but they invited inactive users, despite what was clearly specified in the application form.

That has nothing to do with the fact that I've been invited or not. Irrationally, if I was invited, I would be less disappointed, but rationally, I can't approve of them leaving out their active customer base to make room for those that chose not to support this game. So yes, I would definitely speak against it, and with the same intensity (as my criticism is entirely rational, I leave my irrational disappointment out of it).

This is why I love kickstarter and support games on it all the time. I strongly believe that developers should first and foremost hold the feedback of those that support them in the highest possible consideration. On kickstarter, if you support a game, the developer will normally go above and beyond the call of duty to give you the tools to provide that feedback, and that's why I have a reasonable amount of confidence that games like Star Citizen will come out very nicely.

So giving a difference of opinion is called "attacking" now?

Sounds just like the mindset a lot of people have around here. "OMG THIS IS MY OPINION I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT!!!! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!1111shiftandpressone!!1" but aren't ready to defend their opinion. Instead they feel "silenced", "harassed" and omg, "attacked"!

Debates can get heated on either side of course, but one must always be ready to defend their viewpoint and not resort to "omg he's trying to silence my voice!!"

Abby, for his part, has defended his viewpoints, albeit also while playing the "attacking me" card, possibly to gain sympathy or make himself look like the martyr/crusader for community rights.

Starlord, Skye, and whatnot, started out with their viewpoints and have defended them as well. So at this point, do we let Abby run his mouth into the ground? Or do we keep him going by challenging his opinion?

and Abby, if you keep replying to the "attacks", doesn't that make you equally guilty, instead of being the bigger person and walking away from it?

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Originally Posted by ispano

No, not by me, by the world at large. Debating against him is one thing, but some of the things you said are actually attacking him as opposed to the argument.

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Like I said, If you think that that's on you, but I'm far from attacking, and it's far from how I work. I wouldn't waist my time attacking people. And being the Christian that I am, if I were to do that then I would be at church rright now repenting for my sins :o.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

So giving a difference of opinion is called "attacking" now?

Sounds just like the mindset a lot of people have around here. "OMG THIS IS MY OPINION I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT!!!! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!1111shiftandpressone!!1" but aren't ready to defend their opinion. Instead they feel "silenced", "harassed" and omg, "attacked"!

Debates can get heated on either side of course, but one must always be ready to defend their viewpoint and not resort to "omg he's trying to silence my voice!!"

Abby, for his part, has defended his viewpoints, albeit also while playing the "attacking me" card, possibly to gain sympathy or make himself look like the martyr/crusader for community rights.

Starlord, Skye, and whatnot, started out with their viewpoints and have defended them as well. So at this point, do we let Abby run his mouth into the ground? Or do we keep him going by challenging his opinion?

and Abby, if you keep replying to the "attacks", doesn't that make you equally guilty, instead of being the bigger person and walking away from it?

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Very few posts here would constitute a "healthy debate".

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/c...3.png?geyt1xih + http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/c...f.png?gewpiuyp+http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/c...c.png?gewzivl4

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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/23843299.jpg

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

LOL Who says I can't? Yes, I am trolling Abby. I'm trolling him because he's an irrational, angry, butthurt individual who can't really look at another person's view being different from his as anything more than "being a fanboy" and "personal attacks". Heck, before I actually started "personal attacks", he was accusing me of doing so, as well as calling names and ranting against SE and anyone who doesn't see things the way he does. Yo ucan't really have a productive debate with someone like that. So yes, I started making fun of him for it. "Trolling" him for it, as it were. It was fun. Until a mod came, declared the lulz to be no more, and shut down the thread. lol

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LOL. Seriously? More lies?

1: I never called *anyone* names.
2: You started attacking people personally way before I ever addressed you in fact. You have been calling people "butthurt", "crybabies" and similar not so flattering epithets since before I even entered the discussion. That is, if you aren't aware, a quite clear attack on the personal level.

Are you really so desperate that now you're just telling plain lies? You caused the thread to be locked, but it's still there for everyone to see, you know?

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Originally Posted by Thebard

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/c...3.png?geyt1xih

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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/23843299.jpg

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Ofc, retaliate with a "witty" picture Lol.

Gramul, I have to agree with you tho, hard to find serious debates without the turd flinging -.-

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Ofc, retaliate with a "witty" picture Lol.

Gramul, I have to agree with you tho, hard to find serious debates without the turd flinging -.-

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Nobody said it was you....

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Originally Posted by Thebard

Nobody said it was you....

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It doesn't have to be me, but still the "witty" pic is a retaliation and out of place when people are trying to knock some sense into each other.

Join in by all means, but leave the "witty" pics out of this one <_<

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Like I said, If you think that that's on you, but I'm far from attacking, and it's far from how I work. I wouldn't waist my time attacking people. And being the Christian that I am, if I were to do that then I would be at church rright now repenting for my sins :o.

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I suggest you double check your definition of "attacking" mate.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

So giving a difference of opinion is called "attacking" now?

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Giving an opinion on the opinion is discussion.
Giving a (negative) opinion on the person is called a personal attack. And some people here aren't talking about the opinion, but about the person.

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Or do we keep him going by challenging his opinion?

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Only, my opinion has remained mostly unchallenged (besides a few rare cases, for which I'm more thankful than anything), since those you name prefer focusing their discourse on my person, exactly because they lack the arguments to challenge my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Join in by all means, but leave the "witty" pics out of this one <_<

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I wish that was the case. Some people obviously mistook this forum for 4chan and seem to need motivated pictures and youtube videos to express simple concepts.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Like I said, If you think that that's on you, but I'm far from attacking, and it's far from how I work. I wouldn't waist my time attacking people. And being the Christian that I am, if I were to do that then I would be at church rright now repenting for my sins :o.

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Please don't bring religion into this. Some people(not saying you) claim to be christian and are some of the most violent people out there. Either way, I could easily dig through your posts in the thread and point out each attack and WHY it's an attack.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Giving an opinion on the opinion is discussion.
Giving a (negative) opinion on the person is called a personal attack. And some people here aren't talking about the opinion, but about the person.


Only, my opinion has remained mostly unchallenged (besides a few rare cases, for which I'm more thankful than anything), since those you name prefer focusing their discourse on my person, exactly because they lack the arguments to challenge my opinion.

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But you failed to answer the last part. Why then, don't you walk away from it all, if its all just childish attacks on your person? Do you defend yourself to every little "kid" that says you're fat or you're crazy [insert list of poo flinging], or do you just ignore it under the notion that they don't really "know" you?

You could have walked away from these attacks, but the fact you keep replying to them tells me more. If your opinion hasn't been challenged yet, what exactly, then, are you "debating" or "arguing"?

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

But you failed to answer the last part. Why then, don't you walk away from it all, if its all just childish attacks on your person? Do you defend yourself to every little "kid" that says you're fat or you're crazy [insert list of poo flinging], or do you just ignore it under the notion that they don't really "know" you?

You could have walked away from these attacks, but the fact you keep replying to them tells me more. If your opinion hasn't been challenged yet, what exactly, then, are you "debating" or "arguing"?

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Someone who truly believes in their stance, isn't going to back down from people making childish remarks at them and will defend his position and self. Regardless of how childish those people are. What you just said can also be seen as an attempt to force him to back down because you want him to.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

But you failed to answer the last part. Why then, don't you walk away from it all, if its all just childish attacks on your person? Do you defend yourself to every little "kid" that says you're fat or you're crazy [insert list of poo flinging], or do you just ignore it under the notion that they don't really "know" you?

You could have walked away from these attacks, but the fact you keep replying to them tells me more. If your opinion hasn't been challenged yet, what exactly, then, are you "debating" or "arguing"?

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Wait a sec.

First you say:

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Starlord, Skye, and whatnot, started out with their viewpoints and have defended them as well. So at this point, do we let Abby run his mouth into the ground? Or do we keep him going by challenging his opinion?

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And then you argue I should let others run their mouth into the ground? I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees a rather radical contradiction in there.

The difference is that I never responded to personal attacks with personal attacks. That doesn't mean I won't or shouldn't defend myself.

http://www.asgardsss.co.uk/admin/upl...rdcoreLock.jpg

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Originally Posted by ispano

Please don't bring religion into this. Some people(not saying you) claim to be christian and are some of the most violent people out there. Either way, I could easily dig through your posts in the thread and point out each attack and WHY it's an attack.

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Religion, the pro-activ solution of the soul

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Originally Posted by ispano

Please don't bring religion into this. Some people(not saying you) claim to be christian and are some of the most violent people out there. Either way, I could easily dig through your posts in the thread and point out each attack and WHY it's an attack.

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Like I said you Can do that, but it doesn't meaan "I" consider it an attack,, just like abby can say certain things and make peeopple feel like retards saying "it's the simple 5 times in one post. :/.

And I will bring religon into, anyone that calls me out as a bad person makes me feel like im a bad christian, which in turn I have to mend for my mistakes if I did anything wrong. And there's nothing wrong to bring up religion. I love god and trust in him, in any topic he's always there guiding me to say what I feel is right. It could be wrong factually, but within my own heart I feel what I say is the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Like I said you Can do that, but it doesn't meaan "I" consider it an attack,, just like abby can say certain things and make peeopple feel like retards saying "it's the simple 5 times in one post. :/.

And I will bring religon into, anyone that calls me out as a bad person makes me feel like im a bad christian, which in turn I have to mend for my mistakes if I did anything wrong. And there's nothing wrong to bring up religion. I love god and trust in him, in any topic he's always there guiding me to say what I feel is right. It could be wrong factually, but within my own heart I feel what I say is the right thing to do.

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That's the thing though. Even if "you" don't, if it's commonly considered as such, it is. If it was just one person, or a small group considering it an attack, you would have a point. But when you can find people just about anywhere that call it an attack, it is what it is.

Also i'm not trying to bash you or say you're wrong for having any given religion, just that it doesn't belong in a discussion like this.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Someone who truly believes in their stance, isn't going to back down from people making childish remarks at them and will defend his position and self. Regardless of how childish those people are. It can also be see as what you just said is an attempt to force him to back down because you want him to.

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Not at all Lol. But if he says his opinion is "unchallenged", then thats different than the waves of people trying to silence him for his unpopular opinion he's been vehemently trying to defend.

By his own text, its more about him replying to personal attacks, in which yes, you DO back down. Be the bigger person etc.

Your writing is exactly what I posted above: challenging opinion = trying to silence his voice. I'm NOT trying to do that. If someone "successfully" manages to challenge his opinion, then I welcome the debate, because debates are good, and people learn from each other.

But he has said in numerous posts, he only responds when he is attacked. And the fact that he responds to said "childish" attacks makes him just as responsible.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Like I said you Can do that, but it doesn't meaan "I" consider it an attack

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Well, then what you consider an attack diverges from what's considered an "attack" in the English language. When you shift the negative discourse from one person's opinion to that person himself, that's an attack, under every point of view.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

But he has said in numerous posts, he only responds when he is attacked. And the fact that he responds to said "childish" attacks makes him just as responsible.

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Not really. When someone unduly tries to silence my voice with personal remarks, it's my right to defend myself. Discourse doesn't work by stating one's opinion and then letting a bunch of people that can't challenge it shower you with insults unchallenged.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Like I said you Can do that, but it doesn't meaan "I" consider it an attack,, just like abby can say certain things and make peeopple feel like retards saying "it's the simple 5 times in one post. :/.

And I will bring religon into, anyone that calls me out as a bad person makes me feel like im a bad christian, which in turn I have to mend for my mistakes if I did anything wrong. And there's nothing wrong to bring up religion. I love god and trust in him, in any topic he's always there guiding me to say what I feel is right. It could be wrong factually, but within my own heart I feel what I say is the right thing to do.

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As a fellow Christian. Live it, don't yack it.