Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

Three Eno rotations and use it again after that. It can be useful to for a fourth rotation when your third one would finish 20 or so seconds before all your cooldowns line up again to get a few extra F4 in, instead of doing 2.0 rotation or using Eno and having to delay your cooldowns for a while. And the occasional jump, but that isn't very common.

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Originally Posted by audi5000

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I main BLM and play SMN a good bit, so I have some comparisons. For example, in Sephirot, on BLM, I pull around 1150-1250 in the context of my static (DRG, NIN, BRD, and an AST, meaning optimized party buffs). It's a bit low, but I fall off in second phase due to mechanics. I end the add phase at 1500-1600, which I'm pretty happy with, and I try to optimize my uptime in third phase but I still fall off. I then played SMN in a farm party and easily, with several rotation mistakes and plenty of Shadowflare downtime, pulled 1200 dps consistently over the course of the fight. Also note, that this is comparing BLM sephirot weapon with SMN 200 eso weapon. Any movement, even if handled well, will reduce your BLM dps, but likely not impact your SMN dps at all. Of course, BLM's going for world best parses will beat SMN's, but as someone who plays SMN on main you'll definitely do better on a movement heavy fight with SMN than BLM.

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Originally Posted by daman4567

Any movement, even if handled well, will reduce your BLM dps, but likely not impact your SMN dps at all. Of course, BLM's going for world best parses will beat SMN's, but as someone who plays SMN on main you'll definitely do better on a movement heavy fight with SMN than BLM.

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And THIS is why I main SMN. Fire IV's are so sexy, but there's too much of a demand on the job for my liking ever since 3.0 was released. That being said, I'm still considering giving it another shot since they share Lore tome gear.

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as someone who plays SMN on main you'll definitely do better on a movement heavy fight with SMN than BLM.

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Not strictly true tbh. A SMN might have an easier/quicker time learning and optimizing a fight than a similarly skilled BLM, but when played at the highest level BLM will contribute superior damage, even in fights that are movement heavy. There's always a way to maintain DPS even in the midst of mechanics.

Sephirot is a great example of a supposedly movement heavy and difficult fight for BLM. See the following link: http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/4#boss=1031&dataset=90

SMN is ahead until you reach the 90th percentile of players. BLM catches up here; and slowly but surely pulls away from SMN in the 95th, 99th, and max percentiles, approaching even monk levels of DPS. The only fights I see SMNs consistently beating BLMs are fights full of aoe opportunities (A2S), because BLM single target DPS is monstrous even when slightly gimped by movement or mechanics.

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Originally Posted by CBellz

SMN is ahead until you reach the 90th percentile of players. BLM catches up here; and slowly but surely pulls away from SMN in the 95th, 99th, and max percentiles, approaching even monk levels of DPS. The only fights I see SMNs consistently beating BLMs are fights full of aoe opportunities (A2S), because BLM single target DPS is monstrous even when slightly gimped by movement or mechanics.

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According to FFlogs, the only boss in Midas Savage that BLM is above SMN on is A7S. The difference is small on A5S and A6S, but in A8S SMN do a lot more DPS.

http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10#boss=29&dataset=90

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

According to FFlogs, the only boss in Midas Savage that BLM is above SMN on is A7S. The difference is small on A5S and A6S, but in A8S SMN do a lot more DPS.

http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10#boss=29&dataset=90

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The only reason why SMN would be able to catch up with BLMs on A5-A6S is due to add padding on the pigs on A5S and Blaster/Swindler on A6S. I would agree that Summoner is really good on A8S however, but again, probably mostly due to the multi-dotting nature of phase 2.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

The only reason why SMN would be able to catch up with BLMs on A5-A6S is due to add padding on the pigs on A5S and Blaster/Swindler on A6S. I would agree that Summoner is really good on A8S however, but again, probably mostly due to the multi-dotting nature of phase 2.

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I don't play SMN so I wouldn't know the ins and outs and thus can't say for sure what is better - That is why I said according to FFlogs, in response to what the other poster had done.

Regarding A5S - Would the DoT's on the boss while he's small snapshot for part of the duration of when he's large (it won't be a huge difference, but just found the possibility interesting).

Is it possible to skip the pig phase on A5S and just kill the boss beforehand with enough DPS? For Blaster/Swindler - its more of a burst phase so I don't think SMN's sustained AOE would lead to quicker kill times which at the end of the day is the best measure of what's optimal for a fight, as not all DPS on a parse is equal. And above all that is getting progression earlier.

Well FFlogs give you an idea but i would not trust that source 100% as was there not a blm there that got caught having skewed results not too long ago?
I could be wrong however, just for some reason i thought for sure the player in question was in FFlogs

I only ask and apologize if i am not correct
Also i do not understand that site, i have seen my parse which showed me as blm but i ran that content as Ninja.. lol

Rotation question: If for some reason you've lost Enochian (mechanics or whatever) and you're in the middle of your AF phase (with say 50% of your MP) with Enochian off cooldown, do you finish out your 2.0 rotation and pop Enochian in your next UI phase, or do you pop it right away even though you're at half MP?

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Rotation question: If for some reason you've lost Enochian (mechanics or whatever) and you're in the middle of your AF phase (with say 50% of your MP) with Enochian off cooldown, do you finish out your 2.0 rotation and pop Enochian in your next UI phase, or do you pop it right away even though you're at half MP?

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Personally, the way I handle that is to wait until UI. I will also try and fish for a Firestarter. This way I can transpose > F3P and get into AF using no MP. I'll then pop Enochian during the Firestarter. Now you have enough MP to use 5 Fire IVs.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

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DoTs snapshotting was definitely a good merit for Summoners during progression and even now for less geared groups. But with groups that are already decently geared, you will pretty much only see one boost and two phases where he's large(counting the very first one), making it not as big of a deal as it was during progression, and making better burst during the part where he's small more valuable.

You can skip the pigs yes, but the three Summoner A5S parses above 1600 all had pigs to AOE on. But once everyone is geared enough and groups start skipping that part, I can assure you BLM will come out on top.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

Personally, the way I handle that is to wait until UI. I will also try and fish for a Firestarter. This way I can transpose > F3P and get into AF using no MP. I'll then pop Enochian during the Firestarter. Now you have enough MP to use 5 Fire IVs.

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What do you mean? Fishing-part. Can you explain your scenario for the slow-minded as myself?
Sometimes I dont know how to solve mess ups.

One scenario is;
I mess up first boss in a6s before add phase and throw another fire IV instead of refreshing AF, leaving me with low mana and no AF.

Also cant judge how many casts i need to skip because running/avoiding mechanic for X seconds.
Got problem using Aetherial M too even with /mo macro. Especially if theres alot of mobs together with partymembers..

Another thing, do you always cast Thunder in UI if not up? Regardless of fast/slow ticks? Sometimes i get fast mana ticks every UI, but feels like a loss not using it.

If im similarity geared as a DRG and having BRD and MCH in the party, is it acceptable if we do around the same dps? For my part. Single target.

Last silly question. I ended first phase in a6s second boss with around 2.1k dps with bard and 36% crit rate i think. Feels low? 1230 int
995 crit 282 det 928 ss and ilv230 wep + two ilvl240 accessoaries (Ilvl226). Comment on that is appreciated! Feels like the great blms back then with ilvl210 gear did that easily..

Also this is with melds.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

DoTs snapshotting was definitely a good merit for Summoners during progression and even now for less geared groups. But with groups that are already decently geared, you will pretty much only see one boost and two phases where he's large(counting the very first one), making it not as big of a deal as it was during progression, and making better burst during the part where he's small more valuable.

You can skip the pigs yes, but the three Summoner A5S parses above 1600 all had pigs to AOE on. But once everyone is geared enough and groups start skipping that part, I can assure you BLM will come out on top.

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Tbh I figure at that point if you are killing it before pigs just running a Melee could be better, especially if you have a MCH.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Tbh I figure at that point if you are killing it before pigs just running a Melee could be better, especially if you have a MCH.

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If you don't wanna run a caster, I guess double MCH is more likely better than running a third melee.

My static has been clearing a5s consistently, when we cleared and for the next couple weeks we used our openers as normal at the very beginning of the fight. This worked well for me because all my cooldowns and enochain cycle lined up perfectly for a new burst on every shock therapy spam. However, we've recently started to hold cooldowns until after he's small, and this has given me 2 difficulties. The first one is that Enochian isn't back up when he gets small and others start to burst, so I can't do my opener as normal until a bit later. The second one is compounded by my first difficulty, which is that by the time the shock therapy phase comes out, Raging Strikes and Convert aren't up yet, so I have to either do a weak opener and get minimal burst, or start my opener and be unable to use the full duration of my buffs. Is there a good choice for an alternate opener where I use all my buffs without sharpcast or enochian up?

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Originally Posted by daman4567

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id just use your cooldowns at the beginning tbh. it lines up too nicely with gobledygroper + shock therapy phase if you dont skip first boost to not pass up

on a different tangent, i really appreciate how sharpcast and eno line up with the beginning of legislation. makes the mechanic not such a pain to do

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Originally Posted by Marduk33

What do you mean? Fishing-part. Can you explain your scenario for the slow-minded as myself?
Sometimes I dont know how to solve mess ups.

One scenario is;
I mess up first boss in a6s before add phase and throw another fire IV instead of refreshing AF, leaving me with low mana and no AF.

Also cant judge how many casts i need to skip because running/avoiding mechanic for X seconds.
Got problem using Aetherial M too even with /mo macro. Especially if theres alot of mobs together with partymembers..

Another thing, do you always cast Thunder in UI if not up? Regardless of fast/slow ticks? Sometimes i get fast mana ticks every UI, but feels like a loss not using it.

If im similarity geared as a DRG and having BRD and MCH in the party, is it acceptable if we do around the same dps? For my part. Single target.

Last silly question. I ended first phase in a6s second boss with around 2.1k dps with bard and 36% crit rate i think. Feels low? 1230 int
995 crit 282 det 928 ss and ilv230 wep + two ilvl240 accessoaries (Ilvl226). Comment on that is appreciated! Feels like the great blms back then with ilvl210 gear did that easily..

Also this is with melds.

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Sorry for the late response. On vacation visiting family at the moment. Fishing is just an expression, meaning "in hopes" or "attempting" to get a proc for a specific purpose. In the case I mentioned, the purpose would be getting into AF using no MP in order to cast 5 Fire IVs.

Unfortunately, for the scenario you mentioned, there isn't really a way to fix that mess up. Unless you have Convert off CD or an ether available, there isn't much you can do in that case except wait for enough Mana to cast Blizz 1. You have to work on preventing mistakes like that from happening. Depending on your spell speed, Blizzard IV is ≤ 3.0 seconds, and Blizzard III is ≤ 1.75 seconds. So if you have around 5 second left on Enochian, regardless of where you're at in your rotation, your next cast needs to be Blizzard III, followed by Blizzard IV. And the same goes for Fire on refreshing AF. Normally if I'm in the middle of a Fire IV cast and have to move, I'll move and then cast Fire next to refresh AF and then continue the Fire IV spam. It just depends on the situation and your current spell speed. You just need to keep a very close eye on your timers.

Hi !

Random question there.
Is there an optimal spellspeed number to aim ?
I tend to grab more and more making the single target rotation easy but messing up a lot in aoe since I cast Fire III way too fast ending up with only one tick of mana... (Most of the time)

Is 1050 way too much ?
Should i aim 900 ?

Really the more spell speed the better, 900 is far too low so 1000+ is ideal.
Spell Speed> Crit> Determination (if/once you meld gear)

I've been practicing rotations on the Sephi EX SSS test dummy to re-familiarize myself with the job. I've realize that if I do 4 Fire IV's in my midfight rotation (no cd's available), I end up with 265 MP, which is just enough to cast Blizzard III, but I have to wait for a mana tick in UI before I can cast a filler Thunder/Blizzard. As a result, I've only been doing 3 Fire IV's per AF in order to keep my rotation fluid, which I'm sure is murdering my DPS over the course of 3 minutes. The best is I've been able to do is get to 4% with no time left, which is like 1332 DPS (abysmal at i216, I know).

My gear is in no way optimized, as I don't currently have an endgame raid static, but I'd like to improve my BLM for possible consideration as a main. If someone could take a look at my lodestone and let me know if my MP/rotation issue is just gear or lack of melds, I'd appreciate it.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/5011293/

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

My gear is in no way optimized, as I don't currently have an endgame raid static, but I'd like to improve my BLM for possible consideration as a main. If someone could take a look at my lodestone and let me know if my MP/rotation issue is just gear or lack of melds, I'd appreciate it.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/5011293/

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With only 668 SS and 3 pieces of i200 gear you're going to have a tough time. You should have like 950 SS right now.
It should be better to wait for the tick. But I'm not sure why you're having trouble with the rotation.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

With only 668 SS and 3 pieces of i200 gear you're going to have a tough time. You should have like 950 SS right now.
It should be better to wait for the tick. But I'm not sure why you're having trouble with the rotation.

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Thanks for the feedback. Is it possible to get 950 SS with just gear, or is melding pretty much a requirement at this point?

As far the rotation, I'm sure if I add back the fourth Five IV into my AF phase, it should help quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Thanks for the feedback. Is it possible to get 950 SS with just gear, or is melding pretty much a requirement at this point?

As far the rotation, I'm sure if I add back the fourth Five IV into my AF phase, it should help quite a bit.

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Very possible. You can get close without melding, the trouble is some of the 230 pieces remove SS. But you get free materia from void ark each week, so you may as well meld away.
But the 220 pieces and the 230 legs are awesome.

Should be beating Drg as Bard, i am sorry but that comment i do not agree with, Drg ST is waaaay higher then bard
At least if you were to compare a player of equal skills

Nobody said that BRD should be beating DRG, they said that BLM should be DRG if they have a BRD for foe requiem.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Very possible. You can get close without melding, the trouble is some of the 230 pieces remove SS. But you get free materia from void ark each week, so you may as well meld away.
But the 220 pieces and the 230 legs are awesome.

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Looks like I've got some serious gearing/rotation work to do to get up to speed, but the SMN gameplay has grown stale after maining it for so long :-/ I'll be flooding this thread with more questions. Thanks for the help.

There's too many pages to look back through here, I'm lazy. Can someone hit me up with the current highest DPS opener? Currently using Sharp-ll-f1-rs-enoch-f3proc-pot-f4-f4-f4-f1-swift-f4-convert-f4-f4-(f3ifproc)-b3-t1-b4, but heard some people saying that Flare should be thrown in etc, so confused now.

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Originally Posted by Core1019

There's too many pages to look back through here, I'm lazy. Can someone hit me up with the current highest DPS opener? Currently using Sharp-ll-f1-rs-enoch-f3proc-pot-f4-f4-f4-f1-swift-f4-convert-f4-f4-(f3ifproc)-b3-t1-b4, but heard some people saying that Flare should be thrown in etc, so confused now.

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It's all in here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...p=docslist_api

Don't use swiftcast, just hardcast convert if you need to. If you get a proc, use it earlier so you can weave swift and convert. If you hardcast swiftcast on a Fire IV, you don't actually gain any potency because of the time to cast Swiftcast takes up the .5s you gain from a swiftcasted Fire IV. Either way, it's not worth the extra .5 seconds to use Swiftcast, save it for movement later, cause you'll have movement to do I guarantee.

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Originally Posted by daman4567

Don't use swiftcast, just hardcast convert if you need to. If you get a proc, use it earlier so you can weave swift and convert. If you hardcast swiftcast on a Fire IV, you don't actually gain any potency because of the time to cast Swiftcast takes up the .5s you gain from a swiftcasted Fire IV. Either way, it's not worth the extra .5 seconds to use Swiftcast, save it for movement later, cause you'll have movement to do I guarantee.

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This is slightly incorrect. Using Swiftcast is still a gain because of the instant cast. If Fire IV takes 3 seconds and Swiftcast takes .5 seconds. Then a Swiftcasted Fire IV would take 2.5 + .5 seconds. But now you can cast Convert under that. So Fire 1 (2.5) > Swiftcast (.5) > Fire IV (2.5) > Convert (0.0) > Fire IV X 2 (6.0) = 11.5s.

Without SC, Fire IV takes 3 seconds and Convert takes .5 which would equal 12s.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I've been practicing rotations on the Sephi EX SSS test dummy to re-familiarize myself with the job. I've realize that if I do 4 Fire IV's in my midfight rotation (no cd's available), I end up with 265 MP, which is just enough to cast Blizzard III, but I have to wait for a mana tick in UI before I can cast a filler Thunder/Blizzard.

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How can you always end up at 265 mp? That's what I'd like to know. You should have absolutely no problems having enough mana for 4xF4.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

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NP at all! Thanks for the answer!
Still wondering about Thunder though. Should i Always cast it if its not up? (In UI ofc)

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Originally Posted by Marduk33

NP at all! Thanks for the answer!
Still wondering about Thunder though. Should i Always cast it if its not up? (In UI ofc)

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Don't force a Thunder in. The faster you get back to fire the better.

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Originally Posted by Jinzhu

You should easily be beating a DRG with a BRD.

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Even though with MCH in party too? Heard their buff is also awsome for melee.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Don't force a Thunder in. The faster you get back to fire the better.

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Ah okey. Because sometimes i get fast mana ticks continueously so i never get to cast Thunder.

what do you guys think about this opener

SC + LL - f3 + eno - f1 + RS - f4-f4-f4-f4-fire starter proc + swiftcast-flare - convert +f4-flare

in total it has 5 f4s + 2 flares

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Originally Posted by itti18

what do you guys think about this opener

SC + LL - f3 + eno - f1 + RS - f4-f4-f4-f4-fire starter proc + swiftcast-flare - convert +f4-flare

in total it has 5 f4s + 2 flares

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Personally I like going with 7 F4's IMO.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

How can you always end up at 265 mp? That's what I'd like to know. You should have absolutely no problems having enough mana for 4xF4.

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265 was an estimate, but it's the number I remembered seeing when I first noticed the issue. Either way, I must have been doing something COMPLETELY wrong, as I had no problems with the rotation last night. Was even second in DPS behind a MNK in a Sephi EX party. Go figure.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Personally I like going with 7 F4's IMO.

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as far as i know its not possible to do 7 f4s

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Originally Posted by itti18

as far as i know its not possible to do 7 f4s

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Ewer makes it possible. Practical is another story.