Would you rather healers get more complex healing kits or more complex DPS kits?

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12-02-2023, 05:15 PM
mallleable

Not an AST player, but I've been thinking about how AST cards could get new unique effects based on what we now know about The Twelve.

Like
- The Balance could grant a Blood Bath like effect to everyone -- life from death
- The Arrow could grant a movement speed buff to everyone
- The Bole could be a healing received buff for everyone
- The Spear could increase the max HP of everyone like "Thrill of Battle" for everyone
- The Ewer could be raw mitigation
- The Spire could be a chunky barrier for everyone
12-02-2023, 05:38 PM
Aravell

Quote:

Originally Posted by mallleable

- The Spear could increase the max HP of everyone like "Thrill of Battle" for everyone

I would personally advise against party-wide max HP boosts. Not only is it less useful than raw mitigation, it also has a very small chance to cause a full party wipe to 'set HP to 1' mechanics.
12-03-2023, 12:32 AM
Hyperia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renathras

Of course, now they're kind of screwed in the sense a lot of people picked up SGE and really seem to like it, so...changing it NOW would ruffle a lot of feathers where if they had just implemented it "right" to begin with would not have.

Don’t be so sure about that… <looks at Astros>
12-03-2023, 12:32 AM
SargeTheSeagull

Quote:

Originally Posted by mallleable

Not an AST player, but I've been thinking about how AST cards could get new unique effects based on what we now know about The Twelve.

Like
- The Balance could grant a Blood Bath like effect to everyone -- life from death
- The Arrow could grant a movement speed buff to everyone
- The Bole could be a healing received buff for everyone
- The Spear could increase the max HP of everyone like "Thrill of Battle" for everyone
- The Ewer could be raw mitigation
- The Spire could be a chunky barrier for everyone

That could work, assuming they bring back “spread” so we can store a card for later.
12-03-2023, 02:19 AM
Zeastria

I'm more for:

★ 3 type of cards:
Blue Card => TANK[Def/mitigation+ dmg]
Green Card => HEALER[MP + dmg]
Red Card => DPS[Crit + dmg]
Note: If you give the wrong card to wrong role:
The dmg buff gets reduced and the extra buff effect dosnt apply.

★[Minor Arcana]:
- Turns into a second card deck, separated from your main deck.
- They will be AOE cards and give buffs like: inc movement speed(in combat), inc healing, mitigation..ect (utility kind of buffs).
- You can't choose [RNG]; You draw one card and have to use the card to get a new one(has cd).
- They stack, but the effect gets reduced.(If 2 AST, and they both buff with same ability)
[The Lord card will be a seperated ability with 60s cd]
12-03-2023, 03:33 AM
fulminating

Why limit it to roles, what if you want to give the pld/dark or blm more mp, or the squishy some more survivability or something useful to warrior?
12-03-2023, 07:23 AM
ForsakenRoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by fulminating

Why limit it to roles, what if you want to give the pld/dark or blm more mp, or the squishy some more survivability or something useful to warrior?

This is why I'd do it as one card per role, with Balance as the 'it works on everyone' card. Bole to tanks, Ewer to healer, Spear to melee, Arrow to ranged, Spire to caster. But you'd be able to use any card on any player, to prioritize the additional effect over the 'optimal damage' choice. For example, if Bole is 'deals reflect damage based on max HP, and provides 20% mit', putting it on a caster to help them survive something is going to cost some damage (their max HP is lower), but it'll cost a lot more damage if they die to the raidwide. Or giving a newly-ressed SMN/RDM Ewer to help their MP, but the additional damage effect wouldn't apply (as it specifies 'healer only')
12-03-2023, 07:32 AM
Hyperia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

A trash pull and a boss pull, if given equal design weight, are both simply encounters, with the difference that one involves many units and may allow players to prune the capacity of their enemy in an order of their choosing through which units they prioritize, while boss encounters tend to feature just a single unit who may have HP based changes in abilities but rarely outright pruned capacities and therefore will often ramp up in intensity (on-mob-kill mechanics aside) rather than seeming to ramp down.

Trash is trash because its a trash design effort, regardless of whether it has one or many mobs. A well-designed encounter is a well-designed encounter because of the effort and awareness that generated it, regardless of whether it has one mob or many.

I remember back in the older MMOs, trash was desirable because it had a chance, and often did, drop raid level loot while you cleared. As an example, using today's setup: If your group could not clear the current boss, you could farm the trash repeatedly to get accessories or other items such as glamours or pets. Essentially trash farm that could help people better gear up or stay engaged.
12-03-2023, 09:16 AM
Renathras

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'm down to ruffle some feathers. It's not like we don't have an almost identical alternative in Scholar.

SORT of. SCH has a different set of systems people often find annoying - not me, but others do. Energy Drain drawing from Aetherflow annoys as many people as it enthralls. What's one of the most requested SCH changes? Decouple Energy Drain from Aetherflow. What's one of the most common retorts? Go play SGE if that's what you want. Changing SGE removes that option. And a lot of people (again, not me) dislike SCH's oGCDs being based on Eos and potentially ghosting with her, and prefer things like Physis to Whispering Dawn.

You know my position on SGE already, so you don't have to convince me. I'm just pointing out the calculus involved in the decision making.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

It could also be argued...

Yes...it could. I'm not sure how many would, though.

I think it would more depend on what was changed. Look at what people seem to generally dislike on SGE - Toxicon not being damage neutral and Pepsis (in general, despite it being potentially more powerful than Emergency Tactics since you can get partial use of the shield first) and Addersting generation being limited (since it isn't damage neutral) - as to what things you could probably change without (much of) anyone complaining. I do agree that Pneuma may as well just have Zoe baked in since that's what it's used for in the first place. Not to mention Pneuma is a big 2 min CD, so it actually having some power isn't an unreasonable ask.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperia

Don’t be so sure about that… <looks at Astros>

A fair point, though I'd counter with "they've never QUITE had AST right to begin with". People praise its SB and HW forms now, but in SB people were complaining about "Balance fishing" even back then. That was one of the reasons the cards were changed in the first place. Granted, it ended up being a case of "be careful what you wish for/corrupt a wish", but it didn't come from nowhere. People WERE complaining about it. AST was also famously undertuned at launch and took a decent chunk of HW to get enough buffs to where people actually liked it, only to become arguably too powerful and result in two entire expansions of WHM complaints.

Conversely, SGE at launch annoyed people that wanted something different than currently extant healers, but a lot of people not so hung up on that absolutely loved it, and it's easily more popular right now than both SCH and AST are; AST across all regions, SCH everywhere except Japan, seems like. That isn't something AST could claim in HW when it was released initially, and it's not something AST can claim now. Not to mention AST (unlike SGE) is currently breaking the "pure/barrier" split, and has had a rework in literally every expansion at this point.

Again, I'm not saying it can't happen, but I am saying I don't think they're quite the same case.
12-03-2023, 10:14 AM
ASkellington

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renathras

A fair point, though I'd counter with "they've never QUITE had AST right to begin with". People praise its SB and HW forms now, but in SB people were complaining about "Balance fishing" even back then. That was one of the reasons the cards were changed in the first place. Granted, it ended up being a case of "be careful what you wish for/corrupt a wish", but it didn't come from nowhere. People WERE complaining about it.

People keep bringing it up, but I would like to say time and time again that no one asked for all cards to be Balance. That was SE's screw up and they need to own it. They could have either said, "grow up and deal with it" or make a better system to get the card you wanted. They did neither.

They had TWO WHOLE EXPANSIONS to do that. But no. SE was LAZY and took the LAZY way out. Don't call out the player base for a genuine complaint when SE is the one who can't come up with a decent solution because they don't have a healer on the dev team.

They could have done with the seals system as I've said time and time again by tying AST's old buffing mechanic with Bole/Ewer/Changed!Spire with Moon/Sun/Celestial with Astrodyne as a toggle and Divination as the disconnected Balance buff. But no.

They new AST mains hated the new cards back when Shb was announced and did nothing until DT. That's on them.

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