Let's redefine "damage taxes"

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Because 1% is very insignificant. See that's the point. The dev team must balance around two ideals: Any standard comp can clear and proper balance. The former basically makes it so that proper balance tiers must be squished to such that even from the ceiling to the floor of optimization that everything is still relative to one another

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1% is very significant. Proper balance proves it.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Selfish DPS or not is irrelevant. rDPS is your DPS, the only difference is that you need to worry about other people pushing buttons for it, but in a high end setting that's a non factor. MCH being at practically the top would do nothing but spit on every other Job given it's sheer amount of ease of play. It belongs at the bottom with SMN, which again would with proper balance still be viable because ~5% from top to bottom isn't a big deal and would be better balance than we've ever had

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Why is SAM top rDPS and MCH bottom rDPS when they're both selfish DPS?

Incoming logical fallacy about how running on a side walk is harder than walking up a mountain.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Why is SAM top rDPS and MCH bottom rDPS when they're both selfish DPS?

Incoming logical fallacy about how running on a side walk is harder than walking up a mountain.

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SAM wouldn't be top, BLM would be. And MCH and SMN have similar difficulty. Citing difficulty is not a logical fallacy, but strawmanning is, so if you wish to hold ground you should not make guides to the Emerald City

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Originally Posted by FireMage

How can factual statements be intellectually dishonest?

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Opinions ≠ factual statements.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Or they could properly balance the Jobs and MCH would only do ~1% less than BRD/DNC

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Why should MCH do less than DNC/BRD? In what world is that ok? MCH doesn't bring any raid benefits to the table...they are literally a pure dps job. If they were within 1% of DNC and BRD there would be ZERO reason to take a MCH into the group.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Precisely, I'm not stating my opinion, I'm stating facts

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You're stating poor opinions.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Selfish DPS or not is irrelevant. rDPS is your DPS, the only difference is that you need to worry about other people pushing buttons for it, but in a high end setting that's a non factor. MCH being at practically the top would do nothing but spit on every other Job given it's sheer amount of ease of play. It belongs at the bottom with SMN, which again would with proper balance still be viable because ~5% from top to bottom isn't a big deal and would be better balance than we've ever had

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URXvnFnlUeE

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Opinions ≠ factual statements.

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Precisely, I'm not stating my opinion, I'm stating facts

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Why should MCH do less than DNC/BRD? In what world is that ok? MCH doesn't bring any raid benefits to the table...they are literally a pure dps job. If they were within 1% of DNC and BRD there would be ZERO reason to take a MCH into the group.

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Because MCH is easier than both. That would be its proper tax. 1% is only a factor at the very top of play

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Precisely, I'm not stating my opinion, I'm stating facts



Because MCH is easier than both. That would be its proper tax. 1% is only a factor at the very top of play

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DNC and BRD bring raid utility, MCH does not.......making MCH do less dmg than them because its "easier" to play is literally the dumbest idea in the world. Thank God you're not a game developer.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

DNC and BRD bring raid utility, MCH does not.......making MCH do less dmg than them because its "easier" to play is literally the dumbest idea in the world. Thank God you're not a game developer.

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DNC and BRD are also harder than MCH. Being lower satisfies proper balance and being close in potential satisfies viability. Imagine crying "utility" over Curing Waltz/Minne/Paean

By FireMage's royal decree Machinist and Summoner must needs be deleted posthaste.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

DNC and BRD are also harder than MCH. Being lower satisfies proper balance and being close in potential satisfies viability. Imagine crying "utility" over Curing Waltz/Minne/Paean

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The difference between having a dance partner or not having one on my samurai is literally night and day....MCH doesn't bring that to the table. And for the record, neither dnc or brd are even remotely difficult to play. I'd put them in the same difficulty range as MCH, so again, basing damage on "difficulty" is beyond stupid. You don't make a pure dps job do less damage than the support jobs because of "difficulty." MCH gets excluded from PF's significantly as it is. Your idea would outright make them banned from any group because there would be zero reason to ever allow them in any group when you could bring a dnc or brd who not only do more dps but also bring raid utility.

Seriously, do you even play this game? I think I take back what I've said before about you. You're not misinformed, you actually are just a troll. There is no way you actually believe the crap you're spouting out.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

By FireMage's royal decree Machinist and Summoner must needs be deleted posthaste.

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For real, by his trolling logic those two jobs may as well not exist.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

By FireMage's royal decree Machinist and Summoner must needs be deleted posthaste.

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Such hyperbole. Do find where I've posted anything akin to that. Go on, fetch

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The difference between having a dance partner or not having one on my samurai is literally night and day....MCH doesn't bring that to the table. And for the record, neither dnc or brd are even remotely difficult to play. I'd put them in the same difficulty range as MCH, so again, basing damage on "difficulty" is beyond stupid. You don't make a pure dps job do less damage than the support jobs because of "difficulty." MCH gets excluded from PF's significantly as it is. Your idea would outright make them banned from any group because there would be zero reason to ever allow them in any group when you could bring a dnc or brd who not only do more dps but also bring raid utility.

Seriously, do you even play this game? I think I take back what I've said before about you. You're not misinformed, you actually are just a troll. There is no way you actually believe the crap you're spouting out.

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You're saying the sky would be falling when it wouldn't be. The damage potential falloff from best to worst DPS would be ~5% and only ~1% from BRD/DNC to MCH with proper balance. Every non melee would see buffs with proper balance. You accuse me of trolling, yet you're the one strawmanning and putting words in my mouth. Also you wish to cast doubt on whether I play the game, yet your listed character has no fflogs and barely any mounts or minions. Methinks you doth project too much

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Such hyperbole. Do find where I've posted anything akin to that. Go on, fetch



You're saying the sky would be falling when it wouldn't be. The damage potential falloff from best to worst DPS would be ~5% and only ~1% from BRD/DNC to MCH with proper balance. Every non melee would see buffs with proper balance. You accuse me of trolling, yet you're the one strawmanning and putting words in my mouth. Also you wish to cast doubt on whether I play the game, yet your listed character has no fflogs and barely any mounts or minions. Methinks you doth project too much

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I'm stating human nature, especially when it comes to gamers who always gravitate to the stronger options. MCH doing 1% less damage than the support jobs that bring raid buffs will 100% lead to MCH being blacklisted. There would be no logical reason to have a MCH in a party when the dnc and brd would not only do more damage, but give raid buffs. We've literally seen this in the past where in ARR MNK was basically told to go fly a kite as every party did double bard and a drg for the brd buffs and for the piercing debuff with drg and the flex was pretty much always blm.