[Petition] Have Naoki Yoshida Play Healer and take off the DPS Gloves for a year.

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Originally Posted by hfang

doesn't matter -- a fight of this level shouldn't allow solo healing, period. and it should definetely not allow said healer to spend nearly half of the fight spamming their single damage button. if this doesn't tell you how little damage everything in this game does, i don't know what else to say

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I was answering about the why western players doesn't do it. Read my previous message, you will understand my positions about healing. ;)

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Originally Posted by anguel

pretty simple why he spent hes fight with only this dmg button, because if need do a heal, he doesnt have to break a rotation, and can still benefit from highest not combo'ed spell
because hes focus was ... healing

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So if the rotation doesn't break with healing, we can have an interesting rotation, that's what we wants. And if his most used spells used was Fall malefic, that's because he had not much heal to do in the first half of the fight. The second half he spent less time dpsing, so probably fights should look more like second half to justify the actual DPS spells healers have...

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Originally Posted by Kazelus

So if the rotation doesn't break with healing, we can have an interesting rotation, that's what we wants. And if his most used spells used was Fall malefic, that's because he had not much heal to do in the first half of the fight. The second half he spent less time dpsing, so probably fights should look more like second half to justify the actual DPS spells healers have...

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tbh i dont know much about, healing tank to the core hehe ^^, but as a tank i can say that i ve seen since i started drk from heavensward,
i sometime would die (rarely, true but still happen from time to time...) because healer didnt wanted to break hes rotation to toss in that tiny little bit of extra dmg,
hoping that i would survive 2 extra second so he can finish hes rotation,
you have no idea in such situation how frustrating it can be !
especially when under "living dead" and trying to explain "but i dont have these extra 2 sec you need to top me now or i litterally DIE !

and that is probably why for endwalker devs restricted from what im hearing "healer" (not only ofc but ...)

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Originally Posted by anguel

tbh i dont know much about, healing tank to the core hehe ^^, but as a tank i can say that i ve seen since i started drk from heavensward,
i sometime would die (rarely, true but still happen from time to time...) because healer didnt wanted to break hes rotation to toss in that tiny little bit of extra dmg,
hoping that i would survive 2 extra second so he can finish hes rotation,
you have no idea in such situation how frustrating it can be !
especially when under "living dead" and trying to explain "but i dont have these extra 2 sec you need to top me now or i litterally DIE !

and that is probably why for endwalker devs restricted from what im hearing "healer" (not only ofc but ...)

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That's a mistake, it happens sometimes, but I prefer that to a sylphie spamming cure until the end of the duty... (And I play War, I don't need the sylphie...)
Can't count the number of times I saw my Benediction hitting a dead tank and generally, I wasn't dpsing at that moments, if I doesn't have the time to hit bene before tanks die, that's mostly because he is in paper armor and I had to focus heal him...

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Originally Posted by anguel

[...]kinda mindblowing how ppl want, a job to do something that devs didnt designed it for, and then call it broken ...

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Hard disagree. It may not be broken. Heck it's even viable, but it certainly feels like a piece of puzzle that just could not mesh well with the puzzle board that is the encounter design.

The encounter is designed around healers dpsing about 70-80% of time (or even more) while having at least 2, 3 or more dps buttons to play around in that time (See past expansions' kits). It's baked to the core that they will press those buttons to contribute. Incoming damage are commonly known to be not high outside first week minimum iLv and possibly ultimates. Even if they are, they tend to be superfluous about it and is actually just a mitigation check than an actual heal check, something that is not entirely under the healer's dominion in the party. It's been this way since like forever. It is precisely because the change they brought for the healers' role specifically that makes their gameplay laughably shallow at its current iteration. Sure they give us more fancier healing buttons as we level up. Okay, that means, encounters will start dishing out more damage, right? Hahahahahahano. Yoshi-P won't do that because that will scare off the learning healers. Well...fine, that's a fair concern. What about dps kits? They've took some away from us so what do we have in return? Wait what? 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1? Wow, thanks.

It's ridiculous when the actual challenge of playing the role is trying to not fall asleep as you get better. I don't give a damn if people are worried about increased complexities means higher or lower dps----trash that one trick argument. To me, the reward is to not drool and fall asleep while mashing that one button for almost 600 times on my favorite MMO role i.e. in Aglaia.

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Originally Posted by anguel

ultimate aswell here proof

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9r53...ature=youtu.be

but, this is on JP server, and when saying this to EU-NA ppl most answear will be like
"omg but what about split mechanic that target healer, if it goes to a dps what you do ? you die !"
like ... adapting to a situation is not a thing ..., like Japanese can do it but not EU-NA players ...?

kinda mindblowing how ppl want, a job to do something that devs didnt designed it for, and then call it broken ...

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You're not getting it.
It's not a matter of "dumb EU/ NA unwilling to adjust hehe so they just want more deeps bc they don't want to heal anyway" - this group wiped many times for no other reason than only one healer being present while a mechanic targets two and can't be reliably redirected.
This alone is the reason why solo healing this fight will never be more than seeking a challenge and proving to yourself that you can do it.
And once you did that and want to farm the weapons you'll go back to 2 healer comps because it simply makes no sense to spent half your evening wiping to rng. There is no "adapting". You get unlucky, you die. End of story. No amount of healing can mitigate this, no amount of reaction can. You just wipe.

What is mindblowing is that you come in and basically say "healers are fine, just adapt to the situation and solo heal the most recent ultimate while wiping to bad rng that you can't mitigate in any way half the time instead of whining for more deeps buttons and call it broken because y'all secretly just wanna tunnel on moar deeps"
What about Savage? Ex? Dungeons? Normal raids? Alli raids? Fates? Solo duties? You failed to address any of that. All you said was "how curious that JP just solo heals an ultimate while you only want more deeps" when it's not even about "more dps". You repeat "focusing on healing" but there is nothing to focus on the majority of the time in all content. Yes, all. Not most. ALL.

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Originally Posted by anguel

tbh i dont know much about, healing tank to the core hehe ^^, but as a tank i can say that i ve seen since i started drk from heavensward,
i sometime would die (rarely, true but still happen from time to time...) because healer didnt wanted to break hes rotation to toss in that tiny little bit of extra dmg,
hoping that i would survive 2 extra second so he can finish hes rotation,
you have no idea in such situation how frustrating it can be !
especially when under "living dead" and trying to explain "but i dont have these extra 2 sec you need to top me now or i litterally DIE !

and that is probably why for endwalker devs restricted from what im hearing "healer" (not only ofc but ...)

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Automatically assuming that every death is because a healer focussed on dps and actively decided to wait another GCD before healing is nothing but confirmation bias. You're deliberately interpreting the situation to suit your view and ignoring that there are several reasons why a healer hasn't healed you.
How do you know that they hoped you'd survive the extra 2 seconds? How do you know it was about finishing his rotation? How do you know he didn't want to break it and prioritized that tiny bit of extra damage?
You don't. You just assume they did.
And it is just as wrong as e.g. assuming a tank that doesn't mitigate is too focused on dps and doesn't want to weave mitigation instead of dps.
Or that every dps that eats an aoe did that because they are of the "healers adjust lol" mindset.

Sometimes healers miscalculate. Sometimes they're just learning to improve their timing and they'll make mistakes on the way. Sometimes they'll just zone out for whatever reason. Sometimes they'll just lose track of HP bars without "muh deeps" being the reason.
They are humans and they make mistakes as we all do. And especially when learning and improving they happen and that is fine. You never know a lot of things until you try but trying is no guarantee for success and I'd rather have a healer experimenting with how efficiently they can heal when I'm on tank than having someone that always plays it super safe and wastes resources. The latter is far more common.
Same as I fully support a dps experimenting with greed even if they end up miscalculating that slidecast/ last melee GCD and eat extra or a tank pulling as much as possible while experimenting with mitigation timing even if they end up miscalculating and eating a truckload of damage on the next pull.

Might as well just slide some dps in to the heals as one with maybe some combos and call it a day kupo <3 rofl jk

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Originally Posted by Katoar

Please be mindful of others. A lot of people on the forums don't agree with his arguments, however this doesn't mean his point is not valid. He has made multiple valid points, that were demeaningly dismissed with "Oh, look Sylphie"

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That would be much easier if he/she did not condescendingly quote others on this forum by quoting their posts as "drivel", or by being so angry when any issues regarding the game are questioned that he/she may not even read through a post.

[QUOTE=Renathras;6005177]At.
Least.
10.
Characters...?

snip

I'll just point out that you seemed to be so quick to respond that you completely missed my references to AST in my post. Understandable, you seemed to focus on some imagined "belittling" and insulting which comes from who knows where? You do understand what "drivel" means, don't you?
If you wonder why you keep having to repeat your arguments over and over and over and no one listens --- look up "drivel", that doesn't help.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

old SMN...was honestly a mess.

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It was fine, but this is off-topic and I suspect your opinion on the rework will be exceedingly disagreeable.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Every compromise requires not getting everything you want and giving something up in exchange...

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Good thing it's an opinion I hold and not an actual game design decision, so I don't have to compromise on anything.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Healers in MMOs have never been a role with a "rotation".

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I think you have too stringent an idea of "rotation" in your head. They've also never been a role with so few damaging spells, from the MMOs I've played.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Do you have ANY idea how frustrating it is...

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So don't let frustration dictate your response?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

the abject lie that is "More complex doesn't mean more difficult".

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I've not comprehensively read the thread, but from what I have I don't think you and they are on the same wavelength. You can, for instance, clear the entire game on BLM without ever learning or executing an alternate line. This is what most people would consider optional complexity. I think many people are advocating for "optional complexity" to be added to the healers destined to be simpler. I would consider Afflatus Misery post-buff to be a tiny little step towards a better WHM. No casual will ever be required to plan out their Lilies in order to put Rapture into buffs, but a WHM looking to better their gameplay can.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Hard disagree. It may not be broken. Heck it's even viable, but it certainly feels like a piece of puzzle that just could not mesh well with the puzzle board that is the encounter design.

The encounter is designed around healers dpsing about 70-80% of time (or even more) while having at least 2, 3 or more dps buttons to play around in that time (See past expansions' kits). It's baked to the core that they will press those buttons to contribute. Incoming damage are commonly known to be not high outside first week minimum iLv and possibly ultimates. Even if they are, they tend to be superfluous about it and is actually just a mitigation check than an actual heal check, something that is not entirely under the healer's dominion in the party. It's been this way since like forever. It is precisely because the change they brought for the healers' role specifically that makes their gameplay laughably shallow at its current iteration. Sure they give us more fancier healing buttons as we level up. Okay, that means, encounters will start dishing out more damage, right? Hahahahahahano. Yoshi-P won't do that because that will scare off the learning healers. Well...fine, that's a fair concern. What about dps kits? They've took some away from us so what do we have in return? Wait what? 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1? Wow, thanks.

It's ridiculous when the actual challenge of playing the role is trying to not fall asleep as you get better. I don't give a damn if people are worried about increased complexities means higher or lower dps----trash that one trick argument. To me, the reward is to not drool and fall asleep while mashing that one button for almost 600 times on my favorite MMO role i.e. in Aglaia.

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I have seen many people here on the forum state that healers in the past had more dps buttons/options but I find that to be staggeringly misleading. In terms of rotation, healers have always dealt damage through Nukes and DoTs. In the past (HS, ARR) low-level DoTs were incorporated into the rotation of healers because they happened to deal mildly more damage than the spammable nuke. SCH before fairy changes was a mess that required actively using macros for better performance or spam click-on embrace each time you cast a spell throughout the entire encounter. I would bet that it was far worse in terms of gameplay than what we have now.

The only noticeable changes might be the removal of Aero 3 which was replaced with Misery in the same patch and Shadowflare of SCH which in essence is DoT again and not an ability that interacts in some shape or form with the rest of the kit. Only Bane and ED did and they did it in a very negative and counter-productive way as they restrict the usage of AF heals. And this is why ED got removed twice or at least they tried to.