Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

In the FFXIV male spectrum male Midlander are very short; people bring up real life when it's convenient, but the moment real life brings up something like race, gender orientation, or something they don't like all of a sudden "fantasy fantasy!!!"

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Even more of a reason not to make them as tall as the tallest races, since we have already too many of them and as said Midlanders werent supposed to be short. "everything is like this, so we need more like it, I want new races to be exactly like the majority of the ones I can already play!"

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

In the FFXIV male spectrum male Midlander are very short; people bring up real life when it's convenient, but the moment real life brings up something like race, gender orientation, or something they don't like all of a sudden "fantasy fantasy!!!"

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So what you are saying is we already have plenty of tall races and should even out the shorter ones? I agree we need another lala size race.

Not like people would often say "nobody plays" Hroths, Roes, and Elezen, so really the only "relevant" tall race is Au Ra

/popcorn

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Even more of a reason not to make them as tall as the tallest races, since we have already too many of them and as said Midlanders werent supposed to be short. "everything is like this, so we need more like it, I want new races to be exactly like the majority of the ones I can already play!"

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No one asked to make them as tall as the tallest races.
No, we don't have too many tall races, it evens out to 3 and 3 or 4 and 3. Just because male Midlander isn't tall doesn't mean that there are no short males, it just means that male Midlander isn't the average height.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Basically that, I'm struggling to not pop a fantasia and go back to aura

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People will be popping fantasias like no tomorrow, after about two weeks of their release, and the novelty wears off.

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Originally Posted by Truen

Looks kind of dumb though.

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No joke.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

In the FFXIV male spectrum male Midlander are very short; people bring up real life when it's convenient, but the moment real life brings up something like race, gender orientation, or something they don't like all of a sudden "fantasy fantasy!!!"

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It's too bad male midlander couldn't max out at around 6'2 at least. I do think they are a bit too short, always have.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

People will be popping fantasias like no tomorrow, after about two weeks of their release, and the novelty wears off.

No joke.

It's too bad male midlander couldn't max out at around 6'2 at least. I do think they are a bit too short, always have.

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Give me like a month lol, I don't got the money to be popping fantasias like fez dispenser.

As pretty as Viera are, I'll always return to the gremlin life.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

People will be popping fantasias like no tomorrow, after about two weeks of their release, and the novelty wears off.

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Probably true for a lot of people, m. viera are going to boom in the first months then things will even out, I think I'll stay viera tho, the only times I switched is when we got news related to male viera, mostly because I'm a FFTA fanboy and that's the race I want to play, and not having it makes the other races feel insufficient.

ps: You switched again, fight it! Just kidding, but I hope we get some news on f. viera and m. hrothgar in the next LL for the megathread ppl.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

People will be popping fantasias like no tomorrow, after about two weeks of their release, and the novelty wears off.

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I wouldn't be surprised. Especially if the hairstyle and headgear situation does not change.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

Take the height advantage off Elezen and you loose a good reason to choose them.

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Height and design go hand-in-hand. Elezen have those strange proportions because they're a taller, stretched version of humans. Head size seems to stay constant across races, other than the size range due to character height scaling the whole model up and down.

Personally I picked my Elezen alt because I liked his face. The body proportions are a bit odd but not unbearably strange.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Give me like a month lol, I don't got the money to be popping fantasias like fez dispenser.

As pretty as Viera are, I'll always return to the gremlin life.

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I have to buy another one, because I got the voice wrong when I remade my au ra preset. This one makes too much noise in combat. :(

It's inevitable that people will switch off of viera/hrothgar, not only because they have an established character already for years, but because viera get left out (and will be) of many event rewards, hairstyles, hats, etc.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Probably true for a lot of people, m. viera are going to boom in the first months then things will even out, I think I'll stay viera tho, the only times I switched is when we got news related to male viera, mostly because I'm a FFTA fanboy and that's the race I want to play, and not having it makes the other races feel insufficient.

ps: You switched again, fight it! Just kidding, but I hope we get some news on f. viera and m. hrothgar in the next LL for the megathread ppl.

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I'm sure there will be holdouts, don't get me wrong. It may not be so bad for male character players and male viera, as the received hairstyles for the past.. while.. haven't really been that appealing for them, I'd say. I do wonder how long it'll take until players are complaining about limitations and male viera en masse here on the forums though. In addition to that, I wonder how many players will switch off their male viera if SE ever adds that "hyur stubble". :p

I'm an outlier. I've switched in the past, because I'm simply a fantasia addict, but this au ra (slightly altered) is the same au ra I've played as for the majority of my active time in FFXIV, and I have done most of the story on her as well. She is technically my main (canon) character, not viera. Anyway, I'm sure SE will love the people who are not 100% satisfied with male viera, and start switching back and forth frequently from their character preset prior, to their male viera. That's a lot of fantasia sales!

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I wouldn't be surprised. Especially if the hairstyle and headgear situation does not change.

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Hairstyle situation might change, we might actually start getting hairstyles, but I'm not sure if the rate viera start receiving them will please players, nor do I suspect they will change their stance on the "viera unique" styles. Then there's the issue of potential unisex viera styles, or people simply not liking the new styles brought for male viera. Hat situation, I don't expect to change much, maybe they will start adding more circlets, and minor headgear though. Now, late into ShB, they seem to have been adding more stuff that viera/hrothgar could wear.

I'm pretty sure the male Viera will be tall. They won't be as tall as Roegadyn or male Au Ra, or even male Elezen. But they'll definitely be taller than Midlanders and Miqo'te for sure.

In an interview the team said that they didn't want male Viera to be just "tall Miqo'te" (a tall version of the demirace that's currently in the game). That alone confirms that the male Viera will be on the taller side. Consider what Yoshi has said about designing male Viera to be similar to Elezen, as well as the numerous comparisons made from the trailer screenshots.

As for male Viera looking androgynous, I don't think they look androgynous at all.

They just look like your typical young anime protagonist with longer-than-average hair. Just because they're not hypermasculine doesn't mean they're not masculine at all.

They're slim but athletic with lean muscle. Not all males are naturally bulky. They might look less threatening or powerful compared to the bulkier Highlanders or Roegadyn, but that doesn't take away from their masculinity.

EDIT: On a side note, I think male Viera will be pretty popular (at least more popular than male Hrothgar). Despite the hair and hat limitations, I think they'll end up as third most popular male race after Miqo'te and Midlander. Roegadyn, Hrothgar, and Elezen won't provide a lot of competition, although Au Ra and Lalafell might go toe to toe with Viera. As for Midlanders and Miqo'te, I think there's just too many of them for Viera to outnumber. They'll pull from Miqo'te numbers, but they'll pull from all the other male races too. When female Viera first came out, the two female races most impacted were Roegadyn and Elezen, with Miqo'te and Lalafell losing very few of their numbers, so I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened with male Viera.

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Originally Posted by Hunky

They'll pull from Miqo'te numbers, but they'll pull from all the other male races too. When female Viera first came out, the two female races most impacted were Roegadyn and Elezen, with Miqo'te and Lalafell losing very few of their numbers, so I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened with male Viera.

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It depends on what attracts people to each of the races, and I think the crossover between female Roegadyn and Viera is a lot stronger than between their male counterparts.

I would expect male Viera to draw more converts from Au Ra than Roegadyn, alongside the obvious Elezen and Miqo'te.

I already forsee the death of male Viera

• Too short (shorter than Higlander), so it doesn't draw those who play tall races.
• Too tall (taller than Midlander) so it doesn't attract those who play short races

I can already forecast it. This is similar to what you see in politics, settling for the direct middle is the worst situation you can put male Viera in. They're literally gonna end up as the lame male option. The "twink" (drooling over a teenage boy fantasy) phase will wear out fast when they don't compare well to Miqo'te's short appeal. On the tall side they won't hold a candle to Elezen or male Au ra.

I implore Square Enix to really consider the female Roegadyn height slider which solves both of these problems. Not that we want them as tall as female Roegadyn, but that you use the same variance that female Roegadyn can use in character creator.

I'll present it again. As the last male option this is the correct way to approach it
https://i.postimg.cc/gJ0t6j3s/perfectheightchart.png

Or, split it by clan, make male Ravas tall (between Elezen and Highlander) and then make male Veena short (same height as Midlander or so).
Average is always lame duck territory for men, don't make male Viera an average male, that's what Midlander is there for. We don't need Midlander 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

I already forsee the death of male Viera

• Too short (shorter than Higlander), so it doesn't draw those who play tall races.
• Too tall (taller than Midlander) so it doesn't attract those who play short races

I can already forecast it. This is similar to what you see in politics, settling for the direct middle is the worst situation you can put male Viera in. They're literally gonna end up as the lame male option. The "twink" (drooling over a teenage boy fantasy) phase will wear out fast when they don't compare well to Miqo'te's short appeal. On the tall side they won't hold a candle to Elezen or male Au ra.

I implore Square Enix to really consider the female Roegadyn height slider which solves both of these problems. Not that we want them as tall as female Roegadyn, but that you use the same variance that female Roegadyn can use in character creator.

I'll present it again. As the last male option this is the correct way to approach it
https://i.postimg.cc/gJ0t6j3s/perfectheightchart.png

Or, split it by clan, make male Ravas tall (between Elezen and Highlander) and then make male Veena short (same height as Midlander or so).
Average is always lame duck territory for men, don't make male Viera an average male, that's what Midlander is there for. We don't need Midlander 2.0.

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I think you overestimate how much ppl care about height. Also, male viera seem to be a pretty good height so far and I havent seen many ppl complain about it at all. I higly doubt its gonna make them lame or its gonna be the 'death of male viera'.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I think you overestimate how much ppl care about height. Also, male viera seem to be a pretty good height so far and I havent seen many ppl complain about it at all. I higly doubt its gonna make them lame or its gonna be the 'death of male viera'.

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It's not even worth engaging him on his obsession with heights. He's not going to be talked out of it, and SE aren't going to be talked into it.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I think you overestimate how much ppl care about height. Also, male viera seem to be a pretty good height so far and I havent seen many ppl complain about it at all. I higly doubt its gonna make them lame or its gonna be the 'death of male viera'.

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Height is one of the main reasons people choose which race to be, I don't think Au ra and Elezen would have the same appeal if they were as short as Midlander. On the same vein, I don't think male Miqo'te would give the same appeal if they were as tall as Au ra. Height is one of the main defining features of any person right after race and hair type.

If height didn't matter, then I don't think that it would have been such a heated topic throughout the duration of this thread's existence.

Certainly, there's going to be individuals who don't care one way or another but there's others who have distinct preferences that make it an easy sell or hard pass depending on how things turn out.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not even worth engaging him on his obsession with heights. He's not going to be talked out of it, and SE aren't going to be talked into it.

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I'll make sure to mock this statement when they fit that height slot that female Viera fit for the females; between male Elezen and Highlander.

I like how everyone makes a big fuss when someone asks for male viera to be taller, saying height doesn't matter or throwing memes away, but when someone asks for them to be short, soft, smoll... it's either ignored or supported...

I will say what I always say about this topic, more options up/down = good, forcing a player to giant or very short = bad, I don't agree with Amnmaat in many things, but if SE were to change the race in any way (probably not) the wide slider would be right choice.

And honestly, If anyone here needs every male viera to be shorter or taller than x with no other option, it will probably be for reasons that have little to do with customizing the character you're going to play, I think this is obvious if you just read the comments posted by certain users.

Edit reason: I have clumsy fingers and brain and wrote "= bad" twice XD

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Originally Posted by Renik

throwing memes away

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To be fair, my memes were overflow from when a certain users reasons for wanting m Viera to be roe height boiled down to sexist rhetoric in a previous thread, and then this one. If anyone who wants tall male viera thought that was at them, I apologize. It was specific to some really absurd reasoning.

can I just say that the whole rava/veena height diff is nothing but headcanon?
even the feol were only stated to have shorter ears, thanks for coming to my ted talk.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

To be fair, my memes were overflow from when a certain users reasons for wanting m Viera to be roe height boiled down to sexist rhetoric in a previous thread, and then this one. If anyone who wants tall male viera thought that was at them, I apologize. It was specific to some really absurd reasoning.

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Well there are some requests regarding their height that are not possible, or would look just ridiculous if implemented with their current design, throwing a meme at that is actually funny, but what Amnmaat is requesting right now is more reasonable than some of the pictures he posted in the other thread, yet people keep reacting the same way, while acting like wanting a miqo or lala size male viera is ok.

Also, I didn't want to call out on anyone, except for the kind of people I mention in my third paragraph, and still didn't call any names.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

even the feol were only stated to have shorter ears, thanks for coming to my ted talk.

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This, I feel like I need to correct this every time I see it, feol are not even viera, they are hybrids with shorter ears and blonde hair, and can't even hear the voice of the forest.

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Originally Posted by Renik

I like how everyone makes a big fuss when someone asks for male viera to be taller, saying height doesn't matter or throwing memes away, but when someone asks for them to be short, soft, smoll... it's either ignored or supported...

I will say what I always say about this topic, more options up/down = good, forcing a player to giant or very short = bad, I don't agree with Amnmaat in many things, but if SE were to change the race in any way (probably not) the wide slider would be right choice.

And honestly, If anyone here needs every male viera to be shorter or taller than x with no other option, it will probably be for reasons that have little to do with customizing the character you're going to play, I think this is obvious if you just read the comments posted by certain users.

Edit reason: I have clumsy fingers and brain and wrote "= bad" twice XD

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i wonder why it‘s always both extremes xD i just think if they‘d have the same height difference as other races, imo they won‘t be elezen tall - probably smaller since female viera are smaller than female elezen. so m viera would be around highlander i guess.

i already see both camps being disappointed tho, the ones that wanted them miqo tall and are expecting them as such and the ones who think they will be elezen tall or even taller.

i still think the graphics team have probably made the best decision either way. and comparisons with other races seem to point at a height around f. viera, no drastic height difference whatsoever. (my guess is they will be a little taller or same height but nothing extraordinary)
i also think it‘s okay to talk about their height, everyone has their biases. what i although see alot is one camp attacking the other, as if that would change much at this point xD

i‘m going to play them either way and i‘m already excited for the benchmark!!

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Originally Posted by Renik

I like how everyone makes a big fuss when someone asks for male viera to be taller, saying height doesn't matter or throwing memes away, but when someone asks for them to be short, soft, smoll... it's either ignored or supported...

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both should be ignored because arguing about height is stupid as SE already has determined their height.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

I'll make sure to mock this statement when they fit that height slot that female Viera fit for the females; between male Elezen and Highlander.

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Remember this?
You should, seeing how you went on a crusade posting this God knows how many times.

https://i.postimg.cc/PJg7whcK/Ad-hominem.png

Sounds to me like you're pretty critical to the tone of said statement and then threatening to mock said person later for speaking their mind.
Couldn't that be classified as "attacking a person's authority to question and discuss"? (your own words)

Oh how the mighty has fallen.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Remember this?
You should, seeing how you went on a crusade posting this God knows how many times.

Sounds to me like you're pretty critical to the tone of said statement and then threatening to mock said person later for speaking their mind.
Couldn't that be classified as "attacking a person's authority to question and discuss"? (your own words)

Oh how the mighty has fallen.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not even worth engaging him on his obsession with heights. He's not going to be talked out of it, and SE aren't going to be talked into it.

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Gotta fight fire with fire, I had to keep it on the same level; I'm not one of those when they go low we go higher people.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Gotta fight fire with fire, I had to keep it on the same level; I'm not one of those when they go low we go higher people.

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It's easy to bend the rules when it suits oneself, isn't?
Going around "correcting" people and then do the same thing oneself, pretty much makes it lose all credibility.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

i wonder why it‘s always both extremes xD i just think if they‘d have the same height difference as other races, imo they won‘t be elezen tall - probably smaller since female viera are smaller than female elezen. so m viera would be around highlander i guess.

i already see both camps being disappointed tho, the ones that wanted them miqo tall and are expecting them as such and the ones who think they will be elezen tall or even taller.

i still think the graphics team have probably made the best decision either way. and comparisons with other races seem to point at a height around f. viera, no drastic height difference whatsoever. (my guess is they will be a little taller or same height but nothing extraordinary)
i also think it‘s okay to talk about their height, everyone has their biases. what i although see alot is one camp attacking the other, as if that would change much at this point xD

i‘m going to play them either way and i‘m already excited for the benchmark!!

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Based on the comparison I've posted before with a min height female Viera, which goes to some effort to control for various factors, assuming the male Viera in it is max height, they'll be around the same height (you can estimate this based on % differences and the known % difference between min and max height female Viera); if not, then they will be taller. With Elezen by and large being their template, I am expecting a similar height dimorphism as that race exhibits.

I agree that they've very likely already determined the race's height, and I am in the camp that wants them on the taller side, but is willing to go for a height slider like female Roegadyn have as a compromise.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Based on the comparison I've posted before with a min height female Viera, which goes to some effort to control for various factors, assuming the male Viera in it is max height, they'll be around the same height (you can estimate this based on % differences and the known % difference between min and max height female Viera); if not, then they will be taller. With Elezen by and large being their template, I am expecting a similar height dimorphism as that race exhibits.

I agree that they've very likely already determined the race's height, and I am in the camp that wants them on the taller side, but is willing to go for a height slider like female Roegadyn have as a compromise.

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fully agree. even though sometimes i‘m a little confused as to what on the taller side means. elezen height, midlander or even au ra?
assuming they would follow the current dimorphism races have (except au ra) they would be somewhere between highlander and elezen, no? would that be considered as on the taller side of things?

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

assuming they would follow the current dimorphism races have (except au ra) they would be somewhere between highlander and elezen, no? would that be considered as on the taller side of things?

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That's exactly what I think, and most comparisons seem to support this. Even if the trailer male is max height (unlikely) they would still be around the same height as the females.

Hurry Yoshi-p release the benchmark or the data already! XD

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

fully agree. even though sometimes i‘m a little confused as to what on the taller side means. elezen height, midlander or even au ra?
assuming they would follow the current dimorphism races have (except au ra) they would be somewhere between highlander and elezen, no? would that be considered as on the taller side of things?

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Very much so, yes.

Man, imagine how tight people would of been if male Viera were short like lalafell but built like highlanders (basically Cell saga Krillin with a nose).

The ultimate short kings lol.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

It's easy to bend the rules when it suits oneself, isn't?
Going around "correcting" people and then do the same thing oneself, pretty much makes it lose all credibility.

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That's how the world works, treat others the same way you want to be treated. Your issue is not with me, your issue is with Iscah for stooping so low, nice try though.

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Originally Posted by Renik

That's exactly what I think, and most comparisons seem to support this. Even if the trailer male is max height (unlikely) they would still be around the same height as the females.

Hurry Yoshi-p release the benchmark or the data already! XD

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Female Viera is scratching the short side of the male spectrum, they're barely, taller than male Midlander. It's a bad faith argument to compare them to female Viera. Female Viera is only tall when you compare them to females. I agree on how they are/should be between male Elezen and male Highlander though.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

both should be ignored because arguing about height is stupid as SE already has determined their height.

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Source? Or you're assuming?

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Source? Or you're assuming?

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SE has already done their height since the model is made and showed. We just don't know what height that is since benchmark isn't here yet.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

SE has already done their height since the model is made and showed. We just don't know what height that is since benchmark isn't here yet.

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You're assuming, what they showed is a work in progress, not a feature that's in live service. That's how product and service development works. Just because Apple shows you that the new iphone can make you fly months before release doesn't mean it will do so.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

You're assuming, what they showed is a work in progress, not a feature that's in live service. That's how product and service development works. Just because Apple shows you that the new iphone can make you fly months before release doesn't mean it will do so.

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False, what they showed is a Finished in game Render. Its done, its completed, we all saw it. Its not live because it wont be released until Endwalker, but that doesnt mean its not complete. They even said during the presentation "We decided instead of waiting to complete both, we will release them One at a Time as they are Completed." Completed

We just dont currently have acces to the benchmark to look at specifics.
But its done, otherwise they wouldnt show it off yet, and they wouldnt say "Completed."

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Just because Apple shows you that the new iphone can make you fly months before release doesn't mean it will do so.

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wanna reference something actually comparable to male viera

I don't know mutch about how outfits are adjusted for eatch body type but i wouldnt be surpirsed if it takes A LOT of time. Adjusting the height of 1 race could mean starting from zero and adjust everything again.
Female aura will stay UwU cute lizard girl for years, Elezen won't have better body proportions. Even if Viera end up very small and i end up disliking it it's okay and i wouldn't expect any change before a very long time.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Eh. give or take. Some people are ride or die elves, and the allure of Ishgard is strong.

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Yeah i exagerated :s

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Height and design go hand-in-hand. Elezen have those strange proportions because they're a taller, stretched version of humans. Head size seems to stay constant across races, other than the size range due to character height scaling the whole model up and down.

Personally I picked my Elezen alt because I liked his face. The body proportions are a bit odd but not unbearably strange.

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Yeah they are fine, some faces are really good imo, i'm just talking about small details at this point.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

It's easy to bend the rules when it suits oneself, isn't?
Going around "correcting" people and then do the same thing oneself, pretty much makes it lose all credibility.

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He had credibility?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

He had credibility?

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Nah..
It was more the benefit of the doubt at first. (I think I used that term correctly?)