Don't do chaotic raid again

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

That would suggest that the content was never intended for casuals to attempt then and the "new player bonus" is a grift, even the notion that it's supposed to be a "step" towards Savage is a complete lie because it's clearly being locked to players who have their BiS through Savage already.

It's just more content for hardcore players basically, because they weren't already growing fat from everything else Dawntrail gave them I guess.

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If I understand correctly the new player bonus is more of a "first come, first served" bonus, people who cleared in a group of first timers got a big bonus since they were all new. But it's a per-new-player bonus and is actually pretty small so it doesn't really incentivize groups of players who cleared to go back and help a new player clear for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

It's an absolute mess in chaotic

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Yes and it's glorious.

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It's not a skill issue (on my part)

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99% of people are going to say this so I don't think that holds much weight.

It's week 1 in PF, the raid was cleared in 4 hours. It's not that bad. Biggest issue was probably people expecting it to be EX level for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

That would suggest that the content was never intended for casuals to attempt then and the "new player bonus" is a grift, even the notion that it's supposed to be a "step" towards Savage is a complete lie because it's clearly being locked to players who have their BiS through Savage already.

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I think it depends on what you mean by "casual". My impression has always been that this content is for people who are still progging savage to give them a gear boost to help with M4 and maybe M3. In that respect, I'd say it's probably for casuals because the people still progging Savage at this point are by and large casual players and casual raiders, but I wouldn't say it's for casuals in then sense of someone who's never done a raid before, and I don't feel like it was ever intended to be. I haven't kept up with everything the devs have said about it leading up to release, but this always seemed like the obvious target audience for Chaotic. Regardless, not sure how the first time bonus is a gift, it's just incentive to help people clear and it accomplishes that.

What they should have done is made 2 tiers. Hard and savage. (Hard is still the same as it is now, and savage is ultimate-tier.)

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Originally Posted by hydralus

What they should have done is made 2 tiers. Hard and savage. (Hard is still the same as it is now, and savage is ultimate-tier.)

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So they should have done twice the work and pissed off even more people?

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Originally Posted by hydralus

What they should have done is made 2 tiers. Hard and savage. (Hard is still the same as it is now, and savage is ultimate-tier.)

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What? This is backwards.

Yes, they should have 2 tiers. Hard should've been Chaotic, and then normal being the more easily accessible/entry point into Chaotic.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

What are the duties defined as high-end by the developers? The vast majority is historically 8-man.

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Vast majority. As in, there is a minority. Minority being what I listed.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

There is nothing less fun than depending on 23 other people to not screw up

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There are however 2 very important diffirences that change the difficulty compared to regular savage a lot:
- In regular savage, its 1 clear per week. And no one is ever going to bother reclearing it if there is no rewards. It makes searching for people harder the longer it takes.
- Because people are rewarded to reclear it with newer players, they are far less likely to care. And this makes the finding 24 people a lot easier, since there might be 16 who already cleared the fight. And depending on the roles and positions, they do allow you to follow them for certain mechanics. (and even if not following, they can still hint cueues on for example when to refresh your platform at an optimal time.

They did a very good job at making reclearing rewarding here. And especialy its system does make it much better to find a clear party.

For me finding a clear party was significantly easier than m1s. So while its savage, i realy dont see the PF problem here.

The bigger problem is trolls. Having 1 person constantly aborting can destroy parties, and as the leader (or anyone) cant see who is doing that. It makes handling those a pain (it usualy collapses the party). That is the only thing that got worse compared to 8man groups.

I also would like it if you could put a condition in the PF that states you must at least have reached a certain phase. Now its just description, and the number of times i saw cutscene viewers in a looming prog party is excessive. Having the game mark thresholds itself as a number, and then giving players access to that phase number in pf could be fine. The chat log can state the actual new phase being unlocked. And for this fight i would say 4 tresholds are going to be helpful: phase 1(first diamond - just to exclude new players), phase 2 (tiles phase starts), phase 3 (2nd diamond starts), phase 4 (enrage cast starts).
Using a number also makes it reusable for other content. The interface can change it to a representing text if needed, but even if its just numbers, players will figure it out anyway.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

I have no idea how someone is against more choice in gearing options lmao
Imagine wanting the rewards to be useless because they have the same substats as Savage/Tome gear

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Not useless by any means, when this game has a horrible Savage loot system, with a 450 tomestone cap. You could still gear alt jobs. If this content is popular for months like 8-man Savage, sure, it should be part of every job's BiS. But the point is, we don't know yet, which is why I am opposed.

I also have no idea how someone is against the release of 24-man high-end content, but in favor of it rewarding better pieces than 8-man. Hard to believe you are the OP.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

Not useless by any means, when this game has a horrible Savage loot system, with a 450 tomestone cap. You could still gear alt jobs. If this content is popular for months like 8-man Savage, sure, it should be part of every job's BiS. But the point is, we don't know yet, which is why I am opposed.

I also have no idea how someone is against the release of 24-man high-end content, but in favor of it rewarding better pieces than 8-man. Hard to believe you are the OP.

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Are you seriously confused about how I can dislike the design of the 24 man content but still want more gearing options? These are two completely separate things.

I don't care where the gear comes from, as long as there are more max item level options to choose from. Before Chaotic gear, healer BiS was 727, which was awful. With the addition of Chaotic gear, healer BiS is now 730. It's the same for tanks - I've been able to drop tenacity on the body piece in favor of a more useful stat.

More gearing options are beneficial and healthy for players who care about optimizing their performance. There's no reason to be against this.