I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

They just need to add Ranger and Musketeer to the game, make them a full DPS and end this problem.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

The reason they fixed it... Also I don't know what you were smoking but bard last out of 6 dps by a large margin is not good DPS.

Focus on dots? WTF? Out of dps, bard has the fewest DoT even available to use... Now you're just making stuff up.

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There was no reason for the fix because towards the end of ARR stacking bards wasn't a common thing or particularly useful. The dps margin wasn't as large as it is now: bards do as low damage as a tank class whilst being mobile (i.e. not using WM). Bard was in a perfect spot and didn't need this change, hence my question.

Btw, AdamFyi quoted out of context so that might have caused the confusion about "good dps". Here's Cirgellon's whole paragraph to let you know what I was referring to: "I don't mind being support and I don't mind doing less damage than other classes. The damage can't be so low that we are almost useless (no WM right now) and I don't want cast times. That's all I ask for. Respectable damage while leaving the class to play like it always has." Bards had respectable/good enough dps in ARR but not anymore, as individuals are getting kicked if they play the mobile way (post #315).

Also about dots. Forgive me if I misunderstood how ninja and monk work, but other dps don't start their rotation by applying buffs and then dots (multiple) and continue by optimizing their dot uptime while using filler moves. Things like multidotting, snapshotting and dot clipping - I want those to be the core part of the rotation i.e the focus of the class I play because it's fun for me. Black mages can only put on one Thunder at a time and their focus is in optimal mp use for fire spells (they won't start multidotting in a fire phase). Dragoons have 2 dots but their rotation is based on combos, not dot management (they won't stop a combo to reapply a dot). Ninja and monk is the same as dragoon far as I an tell. The closest thing to a dot and priority based rotation next to bard and summoner, are healers dps'ing. Just because a class has dots doesn't mean its focus is on the dots.

Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time explaining my points than making points on this forum. Sigh...

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I really don't understand what BRD's are complaining about, BLM got a worse deal than BRD's and i don't see 500 threads on how crap BLM is.

i mean BLM got Enochian which is a pain in the ass to maintain in fights like Phantom ray in The Fractal Continuum.

Enochian - 30sec to 70sec duration with a recast of 60sec, has to be refreshed under Umbral ice with Blizzard IV

Wanderer's Minuet - infinite duration with recast of 15sec for the cost of mobility

i mean if you need you mobility for part of a fight TURN WM OFF

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The point is, BRDs were used to playing with a certain playstyle for almost 2 years. BLMs are expecting to be immobile because that's how it plays from the beginning, Enochian just embraces that further, while BRDs went from being one of the most mobile jobs to being immobile essentially over night. You play the entire game from ARR 2.0 to 3.0 and suddenly WM not only changes your rotation but it changes the entire playstyle of the job. I agree that something had to be done about their essentially unrivaled mobility to damage ratio, but it should have been done a bit more gracefully. Perfect example would be to take a few cues from Marksmanship Hunter in WoW (a sin I know!). Have maybe 2ish shots you have to actually stand still and cast, 1 being a maintenance buff/debuff shot you have to keep up every so often, and 1 being damage shot that's a short CD or procs from something else....boom done. Reduced mobility while still retaining the mobility playstyle with the other shots. That's just a rough draft, but I feel WM was not the right way to go about it. WM having to be cast was a disaster all on its own and removing the cast time does help indeed, but I still feel WM is as clunky of a solution as they could have come up with.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

They just need to add Ranger and Musketeer to the game, make them a full DPS and end this problem.

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There's no problem in BRD's dps though, they can potentially do over or just a little under DRG with both doing 1200+ in numbers. But they can also sing for TP/MP and choose to lower their dps to help others out so that they can keep going.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I would read up on enochian

if WM worked the same way as enochian, BRD's complaints would be ALOT worse than they are now

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Yes, because it would make no sense on bard
I liked enochian from what I read, it makes sense with how black mage has almost worked

AdamFyi, your suggestion could work, thank you for knowing how bard works compared to others who post with no idea what they are talking about.

People like Ageofwar just post nonsense, and there are many of them.

And Uberhaxed, dots are important since a crit dot will reset bloodletter cooldown, which is a huge thing for bards, so bards focus on dots more than most other jobs aside from arcanist's jobs

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

And Uberhaxed, dots are important since a crit dot will reset bloodletter cooldown, which is a huge thing for bards, so bards focus on dots more than most other jobs aside from arcanist's jobs

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They are important but unlike SMN, DoTs don't make up almost our whole playstyle is what I believe the person meant.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I would read up on enochian

if WM worked the same way as enochian, BRD's complaints would be ALOT worse than they are now

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As a BLM main in 2.1 through 2.55, I did read up on it. I decided I didn't like that either. Good assumptions on your part though~

The thing I don't think you're all quite grasping, and you might have realized this playing the high end content, but I think the direction they're taking classes and boss mechanics is phasing out the "requirement" of tp/mp regen songs(like how it was requirement for T8). Though most top teams may still bring a BRD but majority of my clears on content didn't require the BRD to play mp/tp songs.

If the "requirement" of that kind of support becomes less desirable, then the question of "well then should we sub out the brd/mch with someone who does more damage" comes to mind, and by giving brd/mch ways to do good damage, fixes that problem. They've added in a fix last week, and who knows, there may be more, though I don't know how much because I've seen some MCH's who do a great job and keep up with the rest of the DPS.

You still have the option to take the buff off, and move about and continue your rotation, then put it back on and get increased damage for your skills at the cost of having to stand still for a second before moving again. You have the tools now to keep up with the other DPS, and when the "requirement" of your tp/mp regen songs becomes not required, they won't have a reason to replace you for a supposed higher damage dealer because you're already doing good damage.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

They just need to add Ranger and Musketeer to the game, make them a full DPS and end this problem.

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I think you missed the whole explanation in the live letter where they said they will not increase dps without losing mobility. It's called balance. Had nothing to do with the support skills. The support skills just make the job required in raids.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Btw, AdamFyi quoted out of context so that might have caused the confusion about "good dps". Here's Cirgellon's whole paragraph to let you know what I was referring to: "I don't mind being support and I don't mind doing less damage than other classes. The damage can't be so low that we are almost useless (no WM right now) and I don't want cast times. That's all I ask for. Respectable damage while leaving the class to play like it always has." Bards had respectable/good enough dps in ARR but not anymore, as individuals are getting kicked if they play the mobile way (post #315).

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Yeah I didn't realize it was out of content. But the point was that they couldn't balance new content with the way bard was. All mechanics are trivialized by a completely mobile class. They just had the courtesy of increasing the damage (which was not needed since they still had support skills, which still make them required).