ive heard/know of people kicking others out coz of to low dps ^^ needles to say that an official parser will only make the whole situation even worser than it is now ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Frowny
theres always those people who take it to the maximum in every dungeon with theyre "playstyle", and then get pissed when others dont play on the same level, or are a bit slower for whatever reason ^^
and yes i get pissed when someones afk's or jumps around doing nothing , but thats another story for itself ^^
Would you like an in-game parser?
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11-14-2016, 04:03 AMKhemorex
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11-14-2016, 04:04 AMTaranTatsuuchiYeah, I just did this for my first time last night...Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
I expected a bit more when I finished than... nothing.
I thought I'd at least get a clear time.
Nope, I just had to look over at the time left after it blew up. -
11-14-2016, 04:08 AMFrownyNot if the parser if the personal one; you only see your DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemorex
And I've heard of it too... but it is unlikely and most of the time, they aren't parsed; it is someone in a high level dungeon and not knowing what they're doing (ie. ice mage) so it is much more than "low DPS" even though that's the end result. Usually if you're kicked due to low DPS, it is in a higher duty than just Satasha or something. I'm referring to ones where you have to put in effort, mostly EX trials. -
11-14-2016, 04:17 AMlulunamiIf someone were to get kicked from a dungeon for low dps, they must be pressing random buttons to have dps that low. The dps check to complete dungeons is very low. Expert dungeons take like 15 minutes to complete in a good group. In bad groups, they take an hour long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemorex
If you are playing kind of mediocre or below average, you are not going to get kicked from a dungeon. If you are pressing a button once every 20 seconds, then maybe that is why someone kicked a player from a dungeon. This is a team game after all. -
11-14-2016, 04:59 AMWeekendSoja
People automatically think that if something is implemented that there would be no internal controls to prevent abuse. Vote kick can be used to really mess people's day, even more so than a parser. Why? Right now a group can get to the second boss and decide that this person is underperforming and kick. Whereas with a parser you can see underperformance right away and address it.
If I were to be kicked I would rather it be at the beginning of the dungeon than after investing more than 10 minutes into the run.
Too bad the idea of a data center that has allowed add-on functionality isn't a thing. It would be interesting on how the spread between people who want full disclosure of their capability and who want their performance masked behind anonymity would be. Which side has more support...that piques my interest. I, for one would transfer to that data center immediately. -
11-14-2016, 07:36 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHA few nights ago, I was pugging a12N. The black mage, who was new and was struggling with his movement as a result was kicked after the main tank died to Punishing Heat, with the Warrior refusing to do anything as the boss wiped out the rest of the party. Upon wipe, the blm was kicked, and when I asked why, the Warrior said it was becuz the blm only had 1.6K dps instead of the expected 2k. Never mind we wiped at 4% because the warrior wouldn't pick up the boss. At the time, I had been experimenting with one of my own alt jobs, dragoon, which I hadn't touched since 3.1ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frowny
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11-14-2016, 07:54 AMFrownyQuote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
Which brings us back to a private parser.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendSoja
Raises the question why the WAR wasn't kicked for not doing his job... -
11-14-2016, 08:14 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHI blame the meta for that. Every war I've ever ran into has said warrior's too squishy to handle any actual tanking and that their main job is to push the deeps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frowny
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11-14-2016, 02:56 PMSpookyGhostNo, actually, it'll be the same. People who are kicking for low DPS now will continue to kick for low DPS then, and those that aren't won't. It'll still be against the rules to harass someone, so anyone who's doing that now will receive the same punishment they would then. Nothing will change except now everyone has access to the information that PC players already do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khemorex
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11-14-2016, 03:18 PMOrbiaus
It's just weird to me how the game doesn't have a parser. If the party fails dps checks, people need to know what went wrong or else goodbye raid. Parsers are needed because SE made dps checks. Console users need to know what numbers they do. Many times ive seen console people I know do low dps and when they found out their numbers they were shocked. They weren't bad players, it's just there wasn't any feedback to improve. I suffered the same problem because im on console, I cant tweak things because I cant see numbers in real time like PC users get. A personal parser is a good compromise for us. On the subject of abuse, people know your numbers anyway and yeah I've seen people get kicked but it's rare and what do you expect? If people fail a dps check 8 times or more and maybe keep hitting enrage, do you think people won't get fed up? SE added those checks, do they expect the whole raid to disband each time?
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11-14-2016, 03:22 PMFrownySo much this. It is really annoying failing a check because someone is falling behind, and as you said they often don't even know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbiaus
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11-14-2016, 03:25 PMYeol
Official parse is better and more accurate than 3rd party parse.
If harassment is whats stopping us from getting an official parse, there are solutions.
Personal parse usage:
- Any dummy (including SSS).
- Dungeons, trials and raids (Normal and Hard versions).
This will help people practice, learn and improve (Including PS4/PS3 players)
Public parse usage:
- Trials and raid (Extreme and Savage).
Because DPs check is a thing during these contents. People have the right to know what is going wrong in order to fix it. -
11-14-2016, 04:41 PMKarstenSWe had already an official statement in the forum confirming this as a valid reason to kick.Quote:
Seems some already have forgotten this. -
11-14-2016, 05:00 PMRobbieHI didn't say anything O_OQuote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
Anyway, valid reason or not is a dumb choice for a simple reason:
Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?
"Oh but there's guides", no there aren't, if you get a new patch and play the content on first few days there's no guides at all, when 3.4 launched there were no guides, only hours later written guides appeared, for example, for normal Alex.
People get kicked from normal Alex on first day, they won't learn, so they have to queue again and risk getting kicked again by doing the same mistake because they didn't learn it, and no one explained them either because they probably don't know as well.
Then people forget that not everyone is equally skilled and there's a big gap between skill level among players in this game, that why for World Firsts teams test (key word, test, hence need training and experience) to see who are the best players in the FC, or even the server is the players choose to join those FCs.
Kicking players while they are still learning is absolutely stupid even from an official perspective because if it happens too much (they're actually bad players) they'll give up on the game and subs will be lost for the sake of epeen that can't be bothered to help/explain people that are learning.
There i said something now. -
11-14-2016, 05:45 PMLegion88Counter example: What is with the 1-2-3-DDs? I don't feel like i should someone explain on 60 how a rotation works, because he had 60 levels just to read his skills and figure out a suboptimalbutgood rotation by himself or look for a job guide or ask people outside of the duties.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
Playing poorly isn't "you lost enochian/BotD while learning the fight"*.
Playing poorly is "spamming Thrust-Combo/Ice Mage at 60"*.
*Just examples for this particular subject -
11-14-2016, 05:55 PMRobbieHDo Dungeon bosses have enrage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion88
Is everyone else doing proper DPS in normal Alex? Then you shouldn't care about 1-2-3 DDs. -
11-14-2016, 06:07 PMLegion88Unfortunately not...Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
So you are defending intentionally poor play only topped by AA-DDs or AFK-DDs?Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
And what do you refer to with proper? The maximum potential DPS for their gear or just enough to carry his own weight? For me proper DPS is the second one. -
11-14-2016, 06:36 PMRobbieHThen what's the reason for kicking, let's say -- bad DDs in a Dungeon? It's not like they will stand in AOE or any damage mechanic intentionally considering they know them to begin with, just need patience, boss will die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion88
If you care so much about dungeon clear time go DPS yourself instead of queue as Healer or tank.
That's why i play summoner on Dungeon so i can melt adds, and Summoner single target DPS is also pretty good, not the best but pretty good.
AFK should be kicked, but don't bring other subjects just to backup your claim, we're talking about poor DPS players not AFKs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion88
Considering we're talking about Alex normal you don't need top DPS on it by anyone, but one isn't expecting to go there to slack to begin with, it's not like a great DPS goes there to slack and do 50% of what he can do.
The problem here is, most healers won't DPS, MT won't change stances during certain parts where the boss isn't going to harm them, or can simply use DPS stance after aggro is secure and pop cooldowns to compensate, even most players who like to complain about bad players don't do this themselves, not to mention when the boss comes back and/or drops something that helps with DPS is for the MT to go directly in front of boss before Boss is available to target, since melee will probably be in positional spot already, not doing so will result in DPS loss caused by the MT, but this is something rarely seen, again we're talking about Normal, not Savage.
I'll give you an example, Nidhogg normal, which is far better than Sophia normal for second chance points, almost everytime i queue for it there's Bonus, Sophia seems to be about 20-33% chance for bonus.
However it is also harder than Sophia, because people seem to like to die there, so i go as SCH.
DPS ilvl between i210 and i220, one doesn't move to dodge a single thing (DRG), one DPS (Bard) had some gear bellow i200, was getting hit hard by stuff and spent most time dead ((especially during dives) even after Stoneskin and Adloq), the second DRG was doing fine until he got Jump-locked and died.
First run, not enough DPS during Adds (i was DPS as SCH, PLD was in DPS stance too), WHM was chilling.
Second run, Not enough DPS on adds, wipe again.
Third run, 2 DPS dead for a long time before Adds (died multiple times) adds finally go down, not long after the Boss comes back, 3 DPS dead already, then WHM dead.
I proceed to LB3 heal, before Boss died 2 DPS were dead again, it still went down after all the lack of DPS, and let's not forget it has enrage.
Sometimes a single person can make the difference, but people expect everyone to perform great when those same people are poor players themselves.
And i didn't vote kick, end of story.
There's this one time (somewhere in the last 5 runs i was doing in Research Facility (150 Lore dungeon) so i could finish Ninja i240 Anima), i went ahead and trigger the elevator after 2nd boss to make it a little bit faster, i got warned by the tank not to pull again (apparently triggering the elevator is a pull) or he would kick me, i proceed to ask how is that a pull and got kicked.
Despite reporting that event, do i need to explain myself how dumb and mean people can be? I was melting adds as SMN, i was doing 3 times more DPS than the Ninja on boss, and i got booted by bad players.
As you can see even "decent" players get kicked.
This isn't about people being bad at all, it's about epeen and idiotic players who think they're good when they're not. -
11-14-2016, 11:05 PMBrownondorf
I would totally love an official ingame parser. The amount of people having no clue how to play dps is totally unbelievable.
During expert/60 roulette (playing bard):
- Most of the time i'm doing more than TWICE the damage of the other DPS
- Sometimes my damage is higher than the 3 other members COMBINED! (yes even when the healer dps)
- It's extremely rare to see a Dragoon or Ninja use any AOE... Most Ninja don't give you goad if you don't ask and even if you do they don't even know what it is...
- I've seen Dragoons and Ninjas with Sophia's Weapons and good gear still with their TP bar full during the super massive pull before Gubal HM last boss... seriously, how does that king of people end up with Sophia weapons?
- Most player with i250 gear do the dps of a good player in i180 gear...
- Some player have trouble keeping up with my DPS when i'm playing ASTRO...
I think having ingame parser will definitely improve the overall community. -
11-15-2016, 01:28 AMSpookyGhostAgreed, though generally as long as you say "first time" you're held to a lower standard than a person who's cleared/has experienced the whole fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
If you one-shot the encounter then there's no real way to kick a 1-2-3 DPS so they get a free pass. This, however, doesn't mean that it's okay for one member of the team to kick rocks while the rest of the team is putting in effort. It's like playing basketball and one of your team members decides he wants to do cartwheels - even if you win, it wasn't cool of that dude to goof off. XIV, and to an extent most modern MMOs, don't have a focus on teamwork anymore so people think that they don't need to work as a team. "Sure, DPS A isn't pulling his weight, but we beat the boss so why does it matter?", you think and then DPS A goes off to join other DF groups with more of his kind and then DPS A's mentality floods half a group forcing that group to constantly wipe because of them. Had they learned what they were doing wasn't a good thing they would actually try to improve, and if you can visually see that your DPS numbers are lower than the rest of the DPS you'll know exactly what you need to improve on.Quote:
Is everyone else doing proper DPS in normal Alex? Then you shouldn't care about 1-2-3 DDs.
Like I said if you're new to an encounter then it's fine to pull low numbers because you're learning the fight. Once you've cleared the fight, though, you should aim to be doing better at it - even in stuff like Alexander NM.
This is partly true, but partly wrong. Yes, healers should be DPSing, tanks should be stance dancing, etc. etc. But that doesn't excuse DPS to play poorly. As an example if you have proper healer DPS, proper tank DPS, and 3 out of your 4 DPS are doing alright... then that 4th one who's doing cartwheels is making the run slower, forcing you to see more mechanics, and increasing the odds that you'll wipe or someone will die to them. The shorter the fight, the better. With all those same conditions and all the DPS putting in work then you've got a much more stable, condensed fight that has a higher chance of getting beaten.Quote:
The problem here is, most healers won't DPS, MT won't change stances during certain parts where the boss isn't going to harm them, or can simply use DPS stance after aggro is secure and pop cooldowns to compensate, even most players who like to complain about bad players don't do this themselves, not to mention when the boss comes back and/or drops something that helps with DPS is for the MT to go directly in front of boss before Boss is available to target, since melee will probably be in positional spot already, not doing so will result in DPS loss caused by the MT, but this is something rarely seen, again we're talking about Normal, not Savage.
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11-15-2016, 01:41 AMKosmos992kYes, and no. Someone deliberately playing poorly, someone deliberately not trying; in order to annoy others and disrupt their play is both a valid reason to kick and easily defended.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
Not playing up to some arbitrary standard that you have in your head about how they should/should not play, isn't a valid reason to kick and you can be reported for griefing because you are disrupting another player's game.
I wish that people would listen, hear and understand when 'official' statements are made instead of only hearing what they want to hear.
Could poor play be a valid reason for kicking someone? Yes it could. Could being kicked because you don't meet someone's arbitrary standard of goodness be a valid reason for reporting someone for harassment? Yes it could.
I think everyone needs to think before kicking. Just because you can convince a majority of players in a party that it's easier to kick someone than continue with them, doesn't make you right. You have the ability to remove players, what matters is how you use that ability and when. -
11-15-2016, 01:54 AMRobbieHThat's why you get a static and do content with them, you are paying a sub, so are bad players, every MMO has bad players, if you can't deal with them make a group of good players and go do your stuff, no one is forcing you to play with them, from the moment you use DF you are risking meeting those people.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Like i said they are paying a sub which contributes just like you for a better game, you can't force those people out just because they're bad, if people keep getting kicked they'll give up on the game just because "some" people don't realize they can make a group and do the duties instead of using DF.
It's not wrong, we're talking about Normal not Savage, stuff doesn't hit as Hard so there's less to Heal, if the healers are not DPSing even if for a bit, at least one of them, they're also doing a bad Job, especially Scholars with their MP management and Lustrate, even i DPS and use Selene in normal and people don't die, this on min ilvl (230) required to enter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Things will be slower, people will die, Tanks won't use Cooldowns (yes because there's only bad DPS, not bad Tanks or Healers), lose aggro, run around the boss in circles (this was common in ARR for some reason lol), fight for aggro, don't Tank swap, WHM that don't know how powerful Regen is, Scholars that only use EOS and the list goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
How many times did i queue for leveling roulette and got into boring Dzemael and Aurum vale, where then i have to aggro every mob "coz exp" and then people do low DPS and i'm stuck with them for 1h, not to mention them not eating the fruit and killing last Boss adds before they pop in Aurum Vale.
Welcome to DF, if you go in expecting everyone to be End Game Raid material then perhaps you shouldn't use DF at all. -
11-15-2016, 01:57 AMJunseiKei
There's a reason parsers are considered against ToS now when at the beginning, they weren't. Too many were being removed from parties and excluded from content because they weren't meeting arbitrary numbers players were imposing on others. "You're not pulling 500 DPS minimum, get out." Even if the player was doing mechanics correctly or their gear wasn't quite up to snuff (because back in Coil days, RNG drops were far more of a thing than they are now with Alex's page drops and primals dropping tokens too), so they only did 498 DPS.
The thing is, it still happens- people being removed for poor DPS. They just have to be careful about what they say, if anything, as to why people are removed from a group. My only concern is, if public mentioning of parsing were allowed again, if people don't meet certain numbers, will the rampant removal happen again? If it will, it's best to leave parsers as a 'use at your own risk' tool. -
11-15-2016, 02:03 AMdragonseth07I've been kicked for poor play. Maybe I'm special, but rather than think "That's not fair", I took it and worked on improving. It's a motivation, and it makes people improve. If you don't want to improve and play well, play a single player game. Skyrim doesn't care about your poor play, but teammates are counting on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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11-15-2016, 02:20 AMKaurieThis depends on what you define as arbitrary. If, say, you are doing an ex primal. Your party finded group is failing a DPS check. You look at the parser and you see 4 DPS (will put them as relative values to top DPS, rather than an actual number). DPS 1: 100%, DPS 2: 95%, DPS 3: 93%, DPS 4: 63%. Would it be arbitrary to kick DPS4 in this situation, as you are missing a DPS check and they are clearly underperforming relatively to the rest of the party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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11-15-2016, 02:25 AMLunafreya
No, because it is against TOS and will promote arsehats.
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11-15-2016, 02:27 AMJunseiKeiActually, my point had been if someone is doing everything they can to play at their best, but gear or simply getting all the mechanics limits your DPS and then you're further pressured to meet a certain number requirement that can be as silly as getting a lucky critical or not means getting excluded from content, that is a flaw. Especially when you pair this information with people that don't exactly understand class capability or group composition. They just see people who have high numbers on a website and say "you need to be here" without looking at the log and seeing why they are there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonseth07
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11-15-2016, 02:41 AMKosmos992kIf you're using parser data as a reason to kick, I think you already know the response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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11-15-2016, 02:43 AMKaurieWe're talking hypothetically if parsers are added. You said that poor play is only a valid reason to kick someone if they are intentionally playing bad, but not if it is to an arbitrary standard. I wanted to know if you feel that not having the ability to complete the duty counted as arbitrary. It sounds as if you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Personally, I find that an odd stance, but at least we cleared it up. -
11-15-2016, 02:51 AMSpookyGhostThe excuse that "DF matches you against random people, you shouldn't expect the party to be good" is really flawed. I always expect the party to be good, because I expect if you're going to be participating in team-based content then you're going to want to play your part in said team. If you don't, then I will give you advice or ask you to participate if you're just doing cartwheels. If then you decide to still play poorly or not at all, then I'm starting a vote dismiss on you. You bring up "he pays the same sub you do, you're both equal" - but what you're ignoring is that kicking someone isn't down to just one player deciding to boot someone, it's a vote. If the team thinks your mentality/playstyle doesn't mesh well with theirs, then they have every right to remove you from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
Willfully ignorant players should be held accountable for their actions - this applies across the board to tanks, healers, and DPS. This is why the JP DF scene thrives - everyone feels like they need to play their part and if they mess up or under perform they feel guilty about it, they don't just go "meh w/e still won doesn't matter lololol". -
11-15-2016, 03:03 AMKosmos992kBeing able to complete the duty means what? Back in the day, parties wiped many, many times to Titan HM. Is one wipe enough to mean that a player cannot complete the duty? Are two wipes enough? Where do you draw the line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
If we are talking about things in the MSQ, or light party content, or normal/hard mode (not raid or alliance) content, then I think that such judgements have no purpose. Because in general, parties are capable of clearing such content with ease, even with sub par performance. Titan HM being an obvious exception to that (at the time), and if you remember it was quite contentious at the time too...
For EX content, raids and alliance content I view things a bit differently because that is optional content, and by undertaking it you are accepting that it's a greater challenge and therefore better than average performance is expected. If you are framing your situation about kicking a player for poor performance in EX/raid/alliance content, I can see your point. If it's in 'ordinary' content, I do not.
However, I still feel that kicking for performance is a problem. On the other hand if you PF'd and made clear the expectations of the group, I don't see an issue because you clearly set the expectation. But, if you DF'd it, short of someone intentionally sabotaging your run, I think you need to be careful about insta-kicking because you think they are not performing well enough.
That's where the whole judgement aspect of the advice about whether or not performance is a valid reason to kick someone comes into play. It's not entirely cut and dried.
To bring this back to the original topic, and relate it to this discussion, using parsers in content outside of the EX/raid/alliance tier of content is pretty well pointless and open to abuse. I say this because the fundamental truth of the topic is this; With or without a parser, with or without a coach, with or without being berated over performance, players who want to improve will seek ways to improve and players who do not, will not. Parsers won't change that. I think we all know that this is true.
The discussion about kicking people is really a distraction in this topic. Perhaps people are trying to find a justification for having public parsers so they can valiate their reasons for kicking people? Perhaps it's just about a distorted example to justify the presence of a parser? I don't know and I don't really care because those who want to improve will, and those who do not will not. Parsers and/or kicking people in DF over performance, will never change that.
Since that team is random, you cannot have any reasonable expectation other than warm bodies holding controllers. That is the point of DF, it's for everyone, whether they are good, bad or indifferent, whether they play like pro-bros or newbies. It's everyone and DF exists explicitly for that purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
You do realize that Party Finder is for what you want, and Duty Finder was created so that players without a group could at least find warm bodies to fill the roster right?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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11-15-2016, 03:18 AMRobbieHThis is like a Job, you go do your work nicely done and then you expect your colleagues to do the same, yet you find yourself sometimes doing THEIR job. And you get paid the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Welcome to the human world, real life reflects here.
Sorry but this is an invalid argument, people like to vote "yes" just because, or they're with friends and there's still the thing that you can still get kicked if the majority votes yes, which doesn't mean others voted no.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
I'm going to quote myself from previous page:
This is an example of vote kick abuse and that premade parties prove that voting "yes" is not an argument but rather a choice of "i'm with my friends so i vote yes".Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
People who are playing with friends will for the most part vote yes, as will they vote no if it's to kick one of their friends.
Yeah let's find a way to fire co-workers that are bad while we're at it, then we'll get more bad ones and still find ourselves doing their work.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
The same will happen in the game.
Yes, i'm sure ALL JP players are flawless, let's all transfer to JP and leave the bad players to themselves, let's jump ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Do you know why they strive? Because they help each other, in Europe and Americas people like to criticize but not help each other at all.
What have people been doing the last few pages? Complain, have they helped "bad players" meanwhile? No.
TL;DR There's a mentor system, when it came out it was nice to show off the crown icon, but 95% of those people didn't help anyone, being them new or old players. No let's all complain, it's easier. Now some of those people who could have been taught the game better are bad players, alright. -
11-15-2016, 03:22 AMSpookyGhostRandom means you can get anyone, but if you're going to queue for something that's team-based you, as a person, should realize that you're going to need to participate in that team. DF is what you make it, and NA has decided to make it a clusterf**k by having this mentality of "it's okay to be bad because it's DF". It doesn't need to be this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
DF was around before PF existed. DF was to put together a party using people from across the Data Center who wanted to participate in that content. It's important, imo, to think about how DF ended up the way it has as you can look at JP's DF and see a completely different result.Quote:
You do realize that Party Finder is for what you want, and Duty Finder was created so that players without a group could at least find warm bodies to fill the roster right?
I'm not replying to this because it's just going to keep going back and forth. Let's just agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH
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11-15-2016, 03:23 AMLaerune
A part of me wants the parsers, but another part of me remembers how parsers played a big role in World of Warcrafts community becoming very toxic. Parsers are amazing when playing with friends/raid, because those players want to help you improve, so they will criticize your actions in a polite way and you, know that there is no malice behind those actions. When playing with strangers, the parsers will be used to demean and insult other players, which is something that Yoshi-P does not want to see in this game (this is one of the reasons, why we can not whisper to each other during dungeon runs) period.
Personaly, I think the harm that the (official) parsers will bring, will outweigh the benefits that it brings to the community. We already have level 60 players kicking newcomers from the leveling roulette dungeons, because they are too slow for them. Imagine if they had parsers aswell, they kick, post the parser to demean them infront of the group use this information to stroke their epeen.
The best thing would be to add personal parsers, this way players that want to improve can use it to better themselves. SE could release data on what the avarage DPS should for each class when they have full ilevel 250/260/270 etc and players can use those data to compare themselves. -
11-15-2016, 03:31 AMKosmos992kMy reply was eaten by a keypress. So here is a summary.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Teams exist to help each other.
DF exists to help players without a group to find one.
Leveling roulette and adventurer in need bonus exist within DF because DF is there for all players including those learning and those who are new. That is what DF is primarily for.
DF is NOT a recruitment lobby for expert end-gamers to fulfill your fantasy of a pro-bro party to run Sastasha.
PF was added to allow people to assemble their own team because the randomness of DF created unbalanced teams (unbalanced in terms of ability and expertise). People requested it to alleviate that issue.
So, in short, you are wrong about Duty Finder, and Party Finder/Raid Finder is what you are looking for. -
11-15-2016, 03:33 AMRobbieHYou're not going to reply because you know it's true whether you like it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Either way if people want a parser they already have one, if PS4 players want to parse ask friends on PC with it to do it for them.
"But but a parser is against TOS", must be why they already banned all the people who are on a certain website, especially World First teams who use Parsers and triggers.
There would be like 5% of the Raid community left if they banned people who use parsers.
The parser wasn't added in-game for a simple reason: toxicity towards bad players.
This would give a bad image of the community, if you check reddit there's multiple stories of toxic behaviour, do you think it's good for the game to have a community considered as toxic? This isn't League of Legends.
If they wanted a parser in the game, they would have added it LONG ago, the numbers are already there, they're just not being shown to players. -
11-15-2016, 03:34 AMWeekendSojaThere are PF groups like that each new release of EX content, "3 strikes and you're out!" "Mistakes will not be tolerated" "High DPS". The list goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
Using PF and Ex primals in your example pretty much has only one answer and that is yes, difference in playstyles also refer to the inability to clear content.
A better example is saying, "In a DF expert roulette, on trash pulls the monk does 2600, the BLM does 1100, the WAR does 500 and the WHM does 50 (assize). On the bosses the monk does 2100, blm does 900, war does 1200, and the WHM does 20 (aero 3)." Everyone is ilvl 260, tank has not lost hate once and the healer has kept everyone alive.
Now using the "arbitrary standard", would there be a kick for obvious 1-2-3 blm 50 rotation abuse? Or is this an example of apathy and the BLM is perfectly fine because even with his 1-2-3 rotation, the monk and war carried the party dps? -
11-15-2016, 03:42 AMJunseiKeiWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait. I wanna interject here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
:P A lot of those things didn't even have enrages. Titan will go on forever until the timer runs out (I think? I've not actually tried it). This is, assuming, you just took care off adds (gaols) and just did mechanics, I'm pretty sure the fight will just keep going on. You didn't need DPS for those; they were mechanic checkers. A parse didn't really mean much in those kinds of fights when simply living meant you'd eventually down the thing. At that point, gauging your DPS meant you had the fight down to a science and were looking to maximize now. -
11-15-2016, 03:47 AMKosmos992kTitan's heart phase was an insta wipe if failed. Tumult did a craptastic amount of damage if not mitigated, landslide was permadeath, and losing a healer to that was an immediate wipe. You could in theory make the final phase run as long as the instance clock allows assuming that everyone can dodge all the bombs and mitigate the tumults and avoid the landslides, etc... Of course Titan has been 'eased' many times, since then. But yeah, the heart phase was a pretty hard 'enrage'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
What always ticked me off was groups who would not use LB to finish the heart in time and would then wipe. In the final phase if at least one healer and tank stayed alive, the instance could be finished, so long as the remaining players (even if it was just the healer and tank) could dodge everything, mitigate everything and chip away at Titan. but saving the LB for the final phase at the expense of a wipe to the heart was just plain annoying. -
11-15-2016, 03:47 AMJunseiKeiParsers are FFXIV's worst kept secret. I have known people who did mention parsers in game and did get suspended for it. It's become a don't mention it in game, you're a-okay. However, careful what you say around people you don't know; someone can report you for it and you may end up coming face to face with a GM.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieH