SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

What's the point of having Bio I and Bio II if they do the same thing? I hate redundancy. Condense the spells into one and give Bio or Bio II a different use/interaction.

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Bio is an instant-cast, moderate output short duration DoT. Unlike our other rotationary abilities it can be cast and refreshed on the move.
Bio II is a cast-timed high output long duration DoT. It's far more akin to Thunder than Bio.

I have issues with the themes, but don't claim that Bio II and Bio are similar when the only traits they share are non-elemental damage and the fact that they do it over time. It's like claiming that Fire and Fire II basically do the same thing. :P

Actually Bio II has a lower potency then Bio. But it does have a longer cast time. Unless the tool tip is wrong. Bio is 40 while Bio II is 35. That said everything else is accurate.

By high output I mean large damage per cast, not necessarily DPS. I was unclear.

SOLUTION! Change the color palletes of the summons, Example change Titan to a fleshy rot color and call him a flesh golem and change the color of his auto attack red and call it blood spike, then just call Summoner, Necromancer and SE is golden. Then you can just try again with a Real summoner job!

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Bio is an instant-cast, moderate output short duration DoT. Unlike our other rotationary abilities it can be cast and refreshed on the move.
Bio II is a cast-timed high output long duration DoT. It's far more akin to Thunder than Bio.

I have issues with the themes, but don't claim that Bio II and Bio are similar when the only traits they share are non-elemental damage and the fact that they do it over time. It's like claiming that Fire and Fire II basically do the same thing. :P

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Fire and forget abilities. I don't find this restriction of 2.5 seconds convincing at all. If you can't cast it, use swiftcast.

The end result is I use up 7.5 seconds to fire off some damage, and in the meantime I spam ruin. It's utterly devoid in identity.


When you play a Monk, there is identity to the abilities. Deciding between Twin Snakes and True Strike. The abilities are not interchangeable. Flanking bonuses and when to best take advantage of those versus becoming a liability to the healers for being greedy. It's a lot more involved play.

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titan is clearly a solo pet.

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There's no reason to use Titan solo. He simply is not needed, and I NEVER used him nor Topaz carbuncle while leveling. Personally, my pet couldn't hold aggro off of mobs for me unless I waited, and if I wait, I'm just wasting time. Even if he does manage to hold aggro, the mob still takes longer to kill because the tank pet's damage is poor.

The only time it's useful while soloing is if you manage to get a TON of mobs on you while leveling, and even then, the better solution is to kite and let the DoTs go to work. You even have a heavy in your disease to make this EASY, and a way to apply it to all mobs at once.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

It would if every Final Fantasy from 3 to 13 hadn't set a precedent for the Summoner class (and summon-users in general) thematically being based around... yknow, summons... instead of death and decay

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What precedent?

Because, you know, they haven't.

I mean, the original summoner(Rydia) learned Black Magic, Poison, Bio, Drain, Osomose, etc.

Garnet/Eiko weren't thematically based around their summons.

Yuna was, thematically, based around her summons -- But they were useless besides meat shields to soak up a hit every now and then. That isn't really displaying a "summons" or "summoners" power.

So, again, how is there a precedent?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

on some boss, like the demonic wall ifrit is far stronger, other point the enkindle of ifrit is more interesting than the one of garuda, the DoT is pretty heavy.

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No.

Never use Ifrit after 40.

Ever.

For any reason, except solo farming lower-level mobs(so it's easier to group them as Garuda would pull one out of the pack).

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

And quite frankly the summoner should have gotten more command skills to use. I'm not keen on the fact that we use Thunder, a BLM spell, far more than we use some of our SUMMONER spells like Tri-Disaster or Ruin II, and Enkindle needs to go down to a 15 sec cd.

Eye For an Eye is a terrible spell as well that should be re-tooled. I mean, come on, an RNG long cd defensive cooldown with a weak proc effect on a low chance? What a waste of an ability.

What's the point of having Bio I and Bio II if they do the same thing? I hate redundancy. Condense the spells into one and give Bio or Bio II a different use/interaction.

Miasma II is another candidate for serious retooling.

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What a terrible post.

Tri-Disaster has 2 niche uses. One, for the AoE root(hello there Garuda, if you still kill feathers), and for AoE damage on 4+ targets.

We use Ruin II plenty.

We're already top DPS..And you want Enkindle on a 15s CD? A skill we'd be able to get twice during Rouse/Spur? A skill that crits for upwards of 1.4k with said buffs? Wat?

Eye for an Eye is an amazing skill. -10% damage done is not small, or insignificant. You don't pop as an emergency, you pop it when you know what's coming. Titan example -- Pop it 2-3 rotations before a Tumult is coming. It will make sure the debuff is up.

Miasma II is another amazing skill. Useful AoE, useful ST, and has an amazing debuff that is useful.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

There's no reason to use Titan solo. He simply is not needed, and I NEVER used him nor Topaz carbuncle while leveling. Personally, my pet couldn't hold aggro off of mobs for me unless I waited, and if I wait, I'm just wasting time. Even if he does manage to hold aggro, the mob still takes longer to kill because the tank pet's damage is poor.

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Titan/Topaz is useful when multi-pulling mobs on, or above, your level.

Yes, he could hold aggro. Don't state a blatant lie. If my Titan can hold off of Relic+1 DPS, it can hold off of you while leveling(as it did for me).

The goal of using Titan, when solo, is to always fight more than 1 mob. Preferably 2-3-4.

Also, he can be used as a tank for dungeon bosses.

As I said in a post last page, I tanked Hydra no problem with Titan.