Healer Suggestions Megathread

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I do not want a proc based class to take place of my current main. DNC is right there if I want it.

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Did I hit upon a buzz word? Would it have been better to say "rng based combo system?" Besides your 3 standard gcds acting similar to standard/technical step, the job would play nothing like dancer.

Even if the proc style isn't your taste, I did make 4 unique healers. Change the names and flavor of any of them and judge them as a whole.

A side note... astro has been changed every expansion... I hope you're not to attached to what it is now.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Did I hit upon a buzz word? Would it have been better to say "rng based combo system?" Besides your 3 standard gcds acting similar to standard/technical step, the job would play nothing like dancer.

Even if the proc style isn't your taste, I did make 4 unique healers. Change the names and flavor of any of them and judge them as a whole.

A side note... astro has been changed every expansion... I hope you're not to attached to what it is now.

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Hi, I don't blame you for thinking that you may have unintentionally selected a banned word! Not at all, in fact there has been quite a bit of discussion on introducing procs as an option on one healer. I particularly appreciated that you did not take the 'one-size-fits-all" approach to all healers, I would point out that at least in PvP, Square was able to apply a unique feel to each healer, whereas I feel they failed miserably with at least 2x the number of buttons in PvE.

Yes, AST has had major reworks several times, with another rework approaching - which means that we're discussing this even knowing that it is essentially worthless for at least - months? years? Idon't think it's quite fair to say ASTs shouldn't get "attached" to the job, it's fair to expect job changes, however an argument can be made that whomever has been in charge of AST doesn't seem to know where they're going, which is not pleasant.

My current fear is that the last healer introduced copied scholars homework... astro getting "fixed" while sharing the same role as whitemage, the most popular healer, doesn't bode well for me.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Did I hit upon a buzz word? Would it have been better to say "rng based combo system?" Besides your 3 standard gcds acting similar to standard/technical step, the job would play nothing like dancer.


A side note... astro has been changed every expansion... I hope you're not to attached to what it is now.

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And I would like to continue to play AST and not have it turn into something I don't like.

AST may have been changed every expansion but its core has not. Which is what your iteration would be doing.

Also:

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Even if the proc style isn't your taste, I did make 4 unique healers. Change the names and flavor of any of them and judge them as a whole.

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This to me speaks as you don't care that I don't like the changes to AST you made "go play the other 3 then". Unintentionally or not.

If you want a more indepth criticism:

I don't care for the GCD procs. Period. I don't want them here and there's no point in introducing them because "AST is the RNG healer". It isn't just the RNG healer and where it is RNG is in the cards where I'd like that to stay. I don't care for Double Play in PvP but at least there it has more of a purpose than to just speed up the recast timer of my cards - it has effects I want to proc. This one does not and thus doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

Macrocosmos is fine as is as a healing tool that also does damage. It doesn't need to be changed, it needs more situations where it can shine and be used.

A. Helios is fine as is. It doesn't need to be turned into Helios 2 and become a current Cure 3.

In fact a lot of the changes you made make this new AST into a current WHM. If I wanted to play WHM it is right there. Which is the problem I have with your entire concept. It takes away everything I LIKE about AST and turns it into something I dislike about AST. Something SE has already done and a direction I don't want to go in.

Just wanted to add " I don't care for Double Play in PvP but at least there it has more of a purpose than to just speed up the recast timer of my cards - it has effects I want to proc." - this is an example of a design that I thought works well and felt good for exactly that reason- there aren't many procs to watch and those that exist are meaningful.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

In fact a lot of the changes you made make this new AST into a current WHM. If I wanted to play WHM it is right there. Which is the problem I have with your entire concept. It takes away everything I LIKE about AST and turns it into something I dislike about AST. Something SE has already done and a direction I don't want to go in.

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I've been staring at this statement for awhile now. In what way does my AST play like the current WHM???

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I've been staring at this statement for awhile now. In what way does my AST play like the current WHM???

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Looking specifically at the healing tool kit you have this:

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Healing Kit
Benefict II: unchanged
Helios II: Targeted AOE like Cure 3
Essential Dignity: Ogcd, Medium efficiency ST heal
Celestial Intersection: Ogcd, High efficiency ST regen
Exaltation: Ogcd, Low efficiency ST shield
Earthly Star: Ogcd, Medium efficiency AOE heal
Celestial Opposition: Ogcd, High efficiency ST regen
Horoscope: Ogcd, Low efficiency AOE shield

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Helios 2 you literally said becomes Cure 3.

Celestial Intersection is now A. Benefic as an OGCD since you removed it for some reason, or alternatively its Nocturnal Sect form only.

Earthly Star becomes an AOE heal. It LOSES its delayed healing component.

Horoscope ALSO loses its delayed healing component.

Macrocosmos ALSO loses its delayed healing component.

Exaltation ALSO loses its delayed healing component.


The delayed healing is what separates AST from WHM. And you're getting rid of it.

Exalt is now Divine Bension instead of its own thing.
ES is now Medica 2.
Horoscope loses its kit interconnectivity with A. Helios/Helios and now becomes a generic AOE shield.

How does it not feel like current WHM?

Adding in the GCD dps changes does not change the fact you made AST more into a burst healer like WHM currently is, and less of a delayed healer like it is now.

I'm bad with uses quotes, I've bolded your statemnts, sorry.

Helios 2 you literally said becomes Cure 3.

-It was just medica before.Having targeting only improves its dismal use case.

Celestial Intersection is now A. Benefic as an OGCD since you removed it for some reason.

-A. Benefic is bloat, a dps loss that you want to use as little as possible.This CI is dps neutral with a common use case.

Earthly Star It LOSES its delayed healing component.

Horoscope ALSO loses its delayed healing component.

Macrocosmos ALSO loses its delayed healing component.

Exaltation ALSO loses its delayed healing component.

The delayed healing is what separates AST from WHM. And you're getting rid of it.

-There is a distinction here with the delays, but not significantly.

Exalt is now Divine Bension instead of its own thing.
-Exalt was a different version of aquaveil before. My version doesn't function like Bension because it competes with other healing options. Also, current Celestial Intersection is Bension, so this is moving away from current white mage.

ES is now Medica 2.

-Medica 2 is a GCD regen and a DPS loss. This Earthly Star functions like SCH's Indom.


Horoscope loses its kit interconnectivity with A. Helios/Helios and now becomes a generic AOE shield.

-Generic AOE shields are something whitemage doesn't have. Also a niche use case.

How does it not feel like current WHM?

-WHM's healing focuses on GCD use with decent ST oGCD tools, but needs to use its AOE oGCDs more sparingly. It stinks at preventing damage, but can consistently heal the party quickly.
My astro's healing kit is oGCD focused with equal strength in its ST and AOE tools. Each mechanic can be solved a different, depending on your co-healer and type of damage.
A large hit may call for shielding. A bleed, a regen. Back to back damage could be done with shields+regens, or a burst heal. A sage co-healer may mean you don't shield anything. A white mage partner may trend you more towards shielding. The skill expression comes from knowing how to managed your resources, recognizing types of damage, and covering your co-healer lacks.


Adding in the GCD dps changes does not change the fact you made AST more into a burst healer like WHM currently is, and less of a delayed healer like it is now.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand "burst healer" and "delayed healer." Does having 3 skill you press 5~ seconds earlier contribute to the jobs feeling different? If the kit was built around delaying tools then maybe. My earlier drafts incorporated such ideas. As it is now, Astro has just as many shielding/regen tools as delay tools.
I find it interesting how you completely ignore the DPS part of the redesign when DPS takes up 70% or more of any encounter... and looking at my dps and card mechanics, it doesn't feel anything like the current white mage.

The delayed nature of AST’s heals make a world of difference for 2 reasons

1) AST has an incredibly clunky and overfull burst window, however that’s also where a lot of the damage the boss puts out goes, being able to prepare healing in advance that goes off during the burst window where you can’t fit heals is a big indicator of skill in an AST

2) this has been slightly reduced with star’s new massive size but the delayed healing also allowed you to run far a mechanic then come back in later to get a heal (star) or otherwise run far away and stay far away knowing the heal will still hit you when it expires (macrocosmos and horoscope)

There is a a lot of creative freedom you can have optimising around AST’s delayed heals, especially since all but exaltation you can also proc earlier if something changes, it’s nowhere near as simple as “if you need heal at x press button at x - 5 seconds”

I don't find the delayed healing form AST an issue, at all. It's actually great that I can set things up and pop when I need it.