Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

And all would be dead if the Ancients reach their Dead End. When a species reaches the conclusion that living isn’t worth it, and they are the “stewards of the star”

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Well, everything that lived in the world before the moment Venat Sundered them is dead now anyway, so...

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If she was arguing that it was bad to try and reclaim those lives then there is no reason to add onto it “by sacrificing yet more.” She explicitly brings up the act of killing others as part of the problem.

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Therefore, she tries to prevent this by... killing everything?

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I can have intelligent conversations with a chat bot! There are all sorts of programs that can resemble sentience, but I don’t think they're making living being yet. And their resistance to dying wasn’t motivated by their desire to live, but their desire to see through the will of their summoners!

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Hey, makes sense to me, Emet-Selch.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You’re being purposefully obtuse. With how much you pride yourself on being a lore specialist, you should know them from bozja’s lore that personal memory events are EXTREMELY malleable and biased. We literally see this with Cid where he chose to see Varis shooting him as opposed to his father, to help make himself feel better about his decision. Hmmmm….wonder if Venat’s walk might be the same? Purposefully seeing things a certain way to make herself feel better and right about what she did. It would certainly mimic the actions of her advocates at least :p

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First I have never, ever, ever described myself as a lore specialist. That is something you guys repeatedly claim I think with no justification. I will however say yiu maybe should go back and look at the Bozja storyline again as I’m pretty sure the mechanism they use to look at acids memories is different than the means we used to travel the Rift. Better comparison is the Shadowbringers intro, which has us doing the exact same thing.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Well, everything that lived in the world before the moment Venat Sundered them is dead now anyway, so...

Therefore, she tries to prevent this by... killing everything?

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She tries to prevent the destruction of all life but sundering the world yes, I’m glad we’re on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

Hey, makes sense to me, Emet-Selch.

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Now you’re just trolling.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

If she was arguing that it was bad to try and reclaim those lives then there is no reason to add onto it “by sacrificing yet more.” She explicitly brings up the act of killing others as part of the problem.

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Nope, it really doesn't. The writers have now articulated what her concern was, i.e. reaching the fate of the Plenty (and secondarily, ability to manipulate dynamis.) The sacrifices just happen to be the specific method they were going to use to embark on that path in her eyes. Her referencing them adds nothing more than that - not to mention, she is making an emotional appeal here, because she is unable/unwilling to offer the full reasoning for her concern, hence she is motioning for them to stop and trying to appeal to them with reasons to do so - and again, she does so with recourse to the word 'weakness' and follows up with: No paradise is without its shadows. If we cannot accept this truth and learn from our pain, then our plight shall be repeated.

If they hit upon some other method that would allow them to restore a civilisation she was concerned would hit upon that fate, then that would become the problem. Those four words aren't saying what you're trying to twist out of them, i.e. that human sacrifices were involved or that she was intrinsically concerned about them.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

They have souls which is an objective sign of sentience for this fantasy world so yes.

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Elpis is a test facility where they are testing creations submitted by others. The planet may imbue the creations with a soul eventually, but we don’t have any evidence that the ones being tested there have souls, since the ones pointed out to us in this context (the butterflies) are said not to have them.

In other words, congratulations. If a “soul” is what makes it wrong to kill something, then Hermes is doing the equivalent of someone saying we’re wrong for what we did in Eden.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

First I have never, ever, ever described myself as a lore specialist. That is something you guys repeatedly claim I think with no justification. I will however say yiu maybe should go back and look at the Bozja storyline again as I’m pretty sure the mechanism they use to look at acids memories is different than the means we used to travel the Rift. Better comparison is the Shadowbringers intro, which has us doing the exact same thing.



She tries to prevent the destruction of all life but sundering the world yes, I’m glad we’re on the same page.




Now you’re just trolling.

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It doesn’t change the fact that, again, it is obviously her personal account of events, considering that it’s all out of order from what we know of actual events taking place. In which the cid analogy applies. It’s her own biased view of how things happened.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Elpis is a test facility where they are testing creations submitted by others. The planet may imbue the creations with a soul eventually, but we don’t have any evidence that the ones being tested there have souls, since the ones pointed out to us in this context (the butterflies) are said not to have them.

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https://i.imgur.com/0amf1YQ.jpg

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

In other words, congratulations. If a “soul” is what makes it wrong to kill something, then Hermes is doing the equivalent of someone saying we’re wrong for what we did in Eden.

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Yep he is. I don’t agree with him. Bottom line.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It doesn’t change the fact that, again, it is obviously her personal account of events, considering that it’s all out of order from what we know of actual events taking place. In which the cid analogy applies. It’s her own biased view of how things happened.

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So is it false or is it from her perspective? The Amaurot dungeon was from Emets perspective, doesn’t mean it’s incorrect. Just means we have to keep that in mind right?

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Elpis is a test facility where they are testing creations submitted by others. The planet may imbue the creations with a soul eventually, but we don’t have any evidence that the ones being tested there have souls, since the ones pointed out to us in this context (the butterflies) are said not to have them.

In other words, congratulations. If a “soul” is what makes it wrong to kill something, then Hermes is doing the equivalent of someone saying we’re wrong for what we did in Eden.

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Alpha did not have a soul until the ending of the Omega questline. It's reassuring to know we would have been free to rip him apart with no guilt up until that point.

Oh, Omega itself, too!

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Originally Posted by Midgardsormr

'Twould seem your understanding is yet lacking. Scant grasp have I of that which men know and know not...

Mark me, then. Omega hath no soul. No mind's eye in which to envision a rival.

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Smash up that toy robot, everyone.

Emet also states that only the WoL and the scions would have been spared. So the rejoinings and the 3rd sacrifice was still going to happen. Just we'd of had front row seats.

A lot of you show that you haven't played Horizon Zero Dawn. I also am not sure why I didn't think of it as an example of how telling people about Meteion could have gone as the entire back story of how the world you play in both HDZ and the sequel came to be is an example of what could have happened if the person who set the world on the path of its destruction knows about it and still ends up sabotaging the whole thing at the last second. For those who haven't played either the original or the sequel here's at least spoilers for the first. As even though there is a secondary sabotage that might have some light shed on it in the sequel it's the first one that really matters the most. I haven't played the sequel yet so I'm not sure if the cause for the second one becomes known or the huge list of what/whom could have caused it gets narrowed. Anyways

So this dude named Ted who is the CEO of a company that makes machines various world governments use to conduct war with has made it so that not only can they be built by other machines and communicate with each other but also run on biomass if they run out of power. This function is only supposed to be used as a last ditch effort type situation. Now everything is going good til a small portion of machines need to use said biomass as fuel. Where a malfunction happens and they're stuck to that setting. Somehow a bug was in the code (at least I want to say it was a bug) and they very quickly spread the bug to other machines cause they're all on the same network. Ted and various coders who work for him find out about this and Ted chooses to hide it while trying to fix it. Only problem is he told those who made all the codes to make them unhackable by people. Ie the machines can put up or slow down any hacking attempt faster than humans can adjust. In the meantime he reaches out to an ex-coworker that's the smartest person he knows and who left the company due to not agreeing to putting in the biomass as fuel option. Elizabet tells him there is no fixing the problem as there's no way a person could come up with a way to shut them down. By this time the various generals of the militaries that these machines are being used by have noticed the bug and want answers.

They get the scoop and at first balk at the idea of not telling the general public about it let alone what the real purpose of the people fighting the machines are actually doing. And that's to buy time for everyone working on the world's biggest time capsule. Along with building a machine that once the rouge machines shut down cause they can't sense any more fuel it can upload a code that will fix the problem. Ted agrees to be the money backer for all of this cause to him and this plays into why he ends up sabotaging the project is that if he doesn't help try and advert the fall of mankind not only will his companies look bad but he will also look bad.

Yes Ted is that much of a selfish, arrogant, egotistical prick that he cares more about saving face that after he sort of learns more about what the plan entails he chooses to delete all known versions of a subfunction that's to basically let other subfunctions they cam move on to further steps. He then remotely kills the only other people who would be able to reverse to some degree his sabotage. All because he's afraid that the clones that get made will learn of how the world had to be restarted. Which would paint him in a bad light. Course by the time the sabotage happens the game highly suggests that Ted has gone insane. Yes, he knew about the project and was kept in the dark about the finer details because everyone knew that there was a high chance of Ted behaving in a way that would have caused the project to fail in some manner.

The shade of Hythlodeaus was also a biased creation from Emet-Selch and—coincidentally—the only person that ever mentions the sacrifices themselves as being the main motivation of the Hydaelyn faction. Why are people willing to take Emet-Selch at his word there, but not actual recordings, Venat’s recollections, and WoG for hers?

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

The shade of Hythlodeaus was also a biased creation from Emet-Selch and—coincidentally—the only person that ever mentions the sacrifices themselves as being the main motivation of the Hydaelyn faction. Why are people willing to take Emet-Selch at his word there, but not actual recordings, Venat’s recollections, and WoG for hers?

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Bearing in mind the Convocation was amongst those she sought to (at least nominally) convince, they'd have been presented (along with the rest of their people) with arguments for their consumption, and not the true account (deliberately being withheld from the Convocation and general public), an account which is given in those sources you mention. So I agree it's strange to hang on that as an indication of what were the true motives of her faction, particularly when their viewpoint, as understood by Hyth's shade (Emet), seems to be to hand over the star to these beings - again, she is trying to convince them to stop. To what end? Who knows, because if she truly thought there was no work-around to the dynamis issue, the only solution seems to be to line up to be sundered. And if they didn't agree?