"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Honestly, this is the first MMO I've ever played where people are so adamant with advice, and become so immediately offended if their advice isn't taken.

Back when I played WoW I carried people all the time in easy content. Many people did. The only time people started caring about "bad" players was in difficult content.

Maybe it's the lack of actual difficult content in this game that makes people want to be all serious and critical in the easy stuff.

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Well, herein lies the problem.

People don't realize they are bad because we aren't allowed to speak up for fear of offending someone and being reported.

These people then go into harder content, are told they are bad because they can't follow basic mechanics and even the most basic of job rotations, let alone the more advanced mechanics and job optimizations.

Then, they come on the forums and complain about "toxic elitists", and how hard content is too hard and should be nerfed because "I paid for it, and so I should be able to do it"

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

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Congratulating someone isn't criticism; congratulations are outlining a positive in someone's performance. Offering advice is criticism by design, as it's outlining a negative in someone's performance. But like I said, not all criticism is done with bad intentions or an accusatory tone. It's still rude to do in public, though.

I'm also not saying that doing it in private guarantees a receptive response. They may still tell you to take a walk and quit harassing them, but it's entirely on them at that point. You didn't criticize/embarrass them in public and did everything in your power to be courteous.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Well, herein lies the problem.

People don't realize they are bad because we aren't allowed to speak up for fear of offending someone and being reported.

These people then go into harder content, are told they are bad because they can't follow basic mechanics and even the most basic of job rotations, let alone the more advanced mechanics and job optimizations.

Then, they come on the forums and complain about "toxic elitists", and how hard content is too hard and should be nerfed because "I paid for it, and so I should be able to do it"

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Most people who play this game will never go into hard content. There's very little of it and you have to actively seek it out. Players who decide they want to be Savage raiders are generally going to be well aware that learning and solid play will be required.

The casuals who complain about toxic elitists are likely experiencing them in roulettes, and other easy content. In roulettes I feel like some people just want to come up with reasons to take them way more seriously than necessary. People want to feel like there are stakes, because they don't get to feel that way often in this game.

It's easy stuff, though; why care THAT much that you're carrying the occasional bad player?

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Originally Posted by Tho-Much

Any evidence? Except your very subjectiv opinion....

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Shall we start with nerfing of several "hard" duties, asking to nerf several more and the addition of a Very Easy mode to solo instances, due to several complaints that they were "too hard"?

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Been playing these types of games, since the 90s. This is the first mmo I played, where people got upset over advice I had given them. I don't call people names, and what I say is to the point. Tells don't help. They'll just accuse you of harassing them and not letting it go, if anything. People always assume I am angry and generally refer to me in a derogatory term, but that is not the case. And while I am blunt, I don't try to make anyone feel subhuman. I chose my words carefully. They don't.

It's not casuals that are the issue. Most casuals are great. But there are a few people that don't care about how their habits and attitudes affect others.

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Of course it doesn't work they wanted to leech and you caught them.
Kinda like a teenager get mad at his mom for entering his room because he was caught doing something he shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Most people who play this game will never go into hard content. There's very little of it and you have to actively seek it out. Players who decide they want to be Savage raiders are generally going to be well aware that learning and solid play will be required.

The casuals who complain about toxic elitists are likely experiencing them in roulettes, and other easy content. In roulettes I feel like some people just want to come up with reasons to take them way more seriously than necessary. People want to feel like there are stakes, because they don't get to feel that way often in this game.

It's easy stuff, though; why care THAT much that you're carrying the occasional bad player?

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Because if everyone was bad, no one would get anything done, and there aren't first class players and second class players, so they don't get the privilege of slacking off when others aren't.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Because if everyone was bad, no one would get anything done, and there aren't first class players and second class players, so they don't get the privilege of slacking off when others aren't.

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People who want to be good at the game take it upon themselves to do so, and there are enough of those kinds of people to get the very sparse difficult content in this game done.

Your advice in roulettes isn't turning casual players into serious ones, and there's no reason to flip out about "carrying" casual players in easy content.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

People who want to be good at the game take it upon themselves to do so, and there are enough of those kinds of people to get the very sparse difficult content in this game done.

Your advice in roulettes isn't turning casual players into serious ones, and there's no reason to flip out about "carrying" casual players in easy content.

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Having people who take upon themselves to be good at the game doesn't mean you get to take advantage of them and slack off.

It's selfish and rude to boot.

"I have good people at my work group so I can rely on them, do a lousy job and pass thanks to their work."

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Most people who play this game will never go into hard content. There's very little of it and you have to actively seek it out. Players who decide they want to be Savage raiders are generally going to be well aware that learning and solid play will be required.

The casuals who complain about toxic elitists are likely experiencing them in roulettes, and other easy content. In roulettes I feel like some people just want to come up with reasons to take them way more seriously than necessary. People want to feel like there are stakes, because they don't get to feel that way often in this game.

It's easy stuff, though; why care THAT much that you're carrying the occasional bad player?

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Except the thread about ex fights in mentor roulette speaks otherwise.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Having people who take upon themselves to be good at the game doesn't mean you get to take advantage of them and slack off.

It's selfish and rude to boot.

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Hell, technically it's rude to not be doing everything in your power to play 100% optimally in all content when you're grouped with others. Anything less and you're shortchanging the people around you to make your own life easier.

Having to be offended every time a DPS plays sloppy; a Healer doesn't DPS; a tank doesn't wall to wall just sounds exhausting to me. Carrying the occasional "bad" players is a lot more fun than your life in roulettes sounds.