Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

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Originally Posted by Nyxn607

If they removed the cleric stance and added in your suggestion, I would like to think it would get rid of the issue in the community about healer DPS. More healers would dps if they didn't have to stance dance and risk letting someone die in the mean time.

Just my opinion on the matter.

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While I get kicked from many groups because I do 0 dps, I still need my Cleric Stance to clear quests...Unless they make INT have the same potency level as MND.

*EDIT*
One problem we faced in FFXI as a WHM was that we almost always needed a Damage Dealer or Tank to assist with quests, unless we took a LOT of time skilling/leveling up our Club or Staff.

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Originally Posted by Saito_S

Yes I did use a primal to swear, and I may do it again, and you can'T STOP ME

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Just wanted to say, I am actually humored by this.

Carry on.

Thanks sebazy for responding cause if i had to id lose my damn mind. Literally every time i check this thread:
https://68.media.tumblr.com/5c8b1a8a...tg7lo1_500.gif
I need to just take a break from this thread. Like the last guy said... carry on.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Sadly I think the standard for raid level healers to DPS is already required. It's already common occurances for healers to be kicked from groups for not pulling their weight ( usually off healers ) for not spending enough time in cleric. I've even seen healers kicked for this reason in dungeons as well.

You're correct, I agree with you.. but I don't know that this will ever be fixed with the meta as it stands. The meta also isn't the problem so much as the game. The game does not require much healing...

And here is a question I pose for the devs... I feel like healing should honestly be more intensive. Healers should be healing. DPSing is great when you have time but why isn't a majority of our time actually spent healing? Why do I have so much down time to DPS? It's mind boggling to me.

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Yes and no. The casual to lower tier mid-term tend to be more willing to ignore a lack of healer DPS. Static I ran with for a good portion of Creator didn't care about healer DPS at all, though they are very much casual (2 days a week; two hours). Personally? I dislike raiding with healers who refuse to DPS once you've comfortably reached farm.

Anywho, it's more how the devs perceive things. They very much want us catering more to the newbies even if we don't necessarily. Hopefully they do up the healer requirements though, or difficulty in general. I firmly believe plenty of people are bad because the game offers little incentive to improve or teach. You have normal mode trials that are an utter joke only for extremes to plummet unsuspecting players. Imagine if Alexander normal were just shy of an EX Primal. That gives players an idea of what to expect should they attempt Savage and also makes finishing the story feel like an accomplishment instead of something you roll over.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

This has always been my biggest concern. I'd love for the devs to remove Cleric, close the "skill gap" (lmao) between DPSing healers and non-DPSing ones by removing that godawful button and letting inexperienced healers work in their DPS organically, AND work on bumping the skill FLOOR of general healing overall, so that players gradually get accustomed to spending most of their globals on healing and maybe a sparing few on DPS. I don't really see why that's so difficult; other MMOs hold to this approach pretty seamlessly. Yes, I imagine content like expert might still see us spamming Holies or falling asleep mashing our Embrace macros, but there's really no reason that raids and EX primals at least can't require the constant dedicated throughput of two reasonably skilled healers (with maybe minimal time to DPS on tight phase checks or priority adds).

I shouldn't have to a.) solo heal content, or b.) rely on pugs being abysmally bad in things like Weeping City/Dun Scaith in order to get a fulfilling, engaging healing experience. Just my two cents.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. I spend more time in Cleric than out. Abilities like Assize are basically DPS because I never need it for healing spare the extremely rare occasion. I don't even bother holding Swiftcast. I'll blow it off with Aero III as it'll otherwise linger on cooldown for ages. That shouldn't be the case yet not even Savage necessitates enough healing where well timed regens or near instant full heals won't do the trick. At least not on a consistent basis. A11-A12 certainly have great burst heal moments but I'd like more. Any other bit of content though? It's insane just how long I'll go without touching a heal once.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

While I get kicked from many groups because I do 0 dps, I still need my Cleric Stance to clear quests...Unless they make INT have the same potency level as MND.

*EDIT*
One problem we faced in FFXI as a WHM was that we almost always needed a Damage Dealer or Tank to assist with quests, unless we took a LOT of time skilling/leveling up our Club or Staff.

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Well, the question becomes, why are you doing zero DPS? If Cleric were removed and healer damage scaled through mind. What reason do you have not to contribute damage?

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Thanks sebazy for responding cause if i had to id lose my damn mind. Literally every time i check this thread:
https://68.media.tumblr.com/5c8b1a8a...tg7lo1_500.gif
I need to just take a break from this thread. Like the last guy said... carry on.

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Don't reply back to every replies you get. Most of the time, it's just not worth it :)

Something I'm confused on is... why do we need to "get people to become healers"? There's certainly no shortage of them. I mean tanks sure... but healers aren't exactly popping up as the 'adventurer in need' with any sort of regularity.

But on the topic, people need to get the idea that healers will keep the dps they do now if cleric stance is ever removed. They won't. And thinking there's even a possibility they will is delusional. Asking for the removal of cleric stance is asking for a nerf to healer dps whether you realize it or not.

As I said earlier in this thread, be careful what you wish for... you might just get it.

I really wonder all these people askin for harder healers must never play tank in df. I cant even count how often healers fail to handle large pulls, or run out of mana. The last thing we need is more demanding healing requirements in normal content, I still know plenty of healers who dont even like doing the vault. Either I just have bad luck are u guys are being delusional about how many people are great at playing healer.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

No. They just have to make encounters that require healing.

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All encounters require healing, what are you talking about?

I think you mean requiring more healing, and in my honest opinion, only ever should the hardest content require more healing, because as far as Yoshi-P is concerned, all content outside of Extremes and Savage need to be doable by the lowest iLv, which brings MP consumption into play as lesser gear = lesser stats.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

<Quoting a quote of your quote of your quote... about Cleric Stance.>

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Personally, I've just been hoping that we'll eventually see something more interesting than Cleric Stance given to Conjurer/White Mage, and maybe even unique stancing variants then given to Scholar and Astrologian. Traditionally, Scholar is probably the most obvious candidate for that sort of skill, while Astrologian could certainly use something like it to offer more than just out of combat WHM/SCH spec-swapping. Conjurer is supposed to be something of an elementalist, aspected to the three astral or "light" elements of the wheel, yet these scarcely factor into its gameplay except in the barest sense of filler damage, DoTs, and a knockback. What if a replacement for Cleric Stance allowed the Conjurer to adjust how s/he uses those three elements, between support and offense, or allowed for the mixing of elementally-affinitive "intent" or so in order to allow for variant actions? In that way you're essentially getting more actions for less, but you're never locking out an entire section of your bar just because your stats aren't aligned until you hit a certain red button (thereby losing the the other, majority half of skills instead).

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I think you mean requiring more healing, and in my honest opinion, only ever should the hardest content require more healing, because as far as Yoshi-P is concerned, all content outside of Extremes and Savage need to be doable by the lowest iLv, which brings MP consumption into play as lesser gear = lesser stats.

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Even minimum ilvl ends up with massive downtimes when it comes to healing. IMO, I shouldn't have to go to Savage raids in order to encounter content that requires me to do more than hit a button every 10 seconds or so.