Lore Book Revelations

Flipping through the Lore Book, I just noticed that Fourchenault Leveilleur not only has an entry but also an in-game character model.

Does this mean he's going to be in 3.5? Can we hit him up for the baby-sitting money he owes us?

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Originally Posted by FJerome

Flipping through the Lore Book, I just noticed that Fourchenault Leveilleur not only has an entry but also an in-game character model.

Does this mean he's going to be in 3.5? Can we hit him up for the baby-sitting money he owes us?

I don't know about you, but where I live that's not a cheap industry, and 3 YEARS of babysitting would make us gillionaires in an instant.

I was very excited about Fourchenault's picture (and Cessair's was a surprise too), but I don't think Alphinaud and Alisaie are categorized as children by Eorzean standards :P

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Originally Posted by Rocl

I was very excited about Fourchenault's picture (and Cessair's was a surprise too), but I don't think Alphinaud and Alisaie are categorized as children by Eorzean standards :P

They're canonically adults under Sharlayan law but who's to say what the age of majority is across the rest of Eorzea? I'm sure if we asked very nicely the Ishgardian Parliament would see the wisdom of upping theirs a few years.

(Hells, I'm sure if we asked very nicely the Ishgardian Parliament would declare Spriggan Appreciation Day if we wanted it.)

But the possiblity of Fourchenault showing up in Eorzea at all seems rather ominous, given how Sharlayan is traditionally isolationist and he's one of their leaders. Is he just coming as a father or is he coming as a representative of the Forum? And if so, what do they want?

My reaction to seeing Cessair's picture was mostly "I am pretty sure that is not a Lalafell". I mean, we already knew that was pretty clearly not a Lalafell name but a lot of people were still strongly attached to the idea of Mhach being a Lalafellin civilisation and were pretty happy when it turned out that the Dunesfolk are Mhachi descendants.

It now begs the question if all the other Mhachi just dumped them over the side of the ship before they sailed off with Nyunkrepf.

An Alternate History of the Black Shroud; Or; Marcette Manne, Your Gridanian Bias is Showing.

So, one of the things that frustrated me about the Lore Book was how little it covered about cultures in the Black Shroud that weren't Gridania.

Let's start off which Amdapor, which . . . doesn't actually have anything to do with this, which is interesting in its own right because it looks like it wasn't an Elezen culture after all;

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Originally Posted by Page 32, The Ancient City of Amdapor

At the dawn of the Fifth Astral Era, a group of Hyur arrived in what is now the South Shroud. The area in which they settled was an open plain interspersed with massive outcrops of light-colored rock, distinctly bereft of the thick forest cover now associated with the region. The abundance of stone allowed the Hyur to erect exceptionally sturdy structures, and by the year 300, central Aldenard had transformed into the bustling city of Amdapor.

The people of Amdapor attempted to commune with the enigmatic elementals of the Black Shroud, that they might partake in the bounty of the forest. The elementals - ever untrusting of men - declined the interaction with their new neighbors, content with the distance between them. The Amdapori respected this wish and did not forcibly encroach upon the sacred holt, save for the occasional pursuit of quarry during a hunt. It is worth mentioning, however, that the elementals did not entirely shun outsiders during this period; amicable relations were maintained with the Ixali tribes, the elementals allowing them ingress into the Shroud upon deeming the beastmen no threat to the forest's natural balance.

Anyway, War of the Magi happens, great flood, all that, let's move on.

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Originally Posted by Page 47 - 53, A Chronology of the Sixth Astral Era

ca. 660 - Driven from their home by the Hyuran settlers, whose numbers continue to swell, the Elezen begin to colonize the Black Shroud.

ca. 710 - The Hyur begin to conquer the Black Shroud, leading to territorial contentions with the Elezen.

ca. 740 - The Elezen and the Hyuran settlers of the Black Shroud reconcile their differences, and together build the subterranean city of Gelmorra to protect themselves from the threat of the elementals.

ca. 1020 - The Ixal incur the wrath of the elements and are cast out of the Black Shroud. The tribes migrate to Xelphatol, east of Abalathia's Spire.

ca. 1076 - After much trial and error, the conjurer Jorin successfully communes with the elementals. Talks are held in Peacegarden, and the citizens of Gelmorra are permitted to live in the Black Shroud.

ca. 1077 - The inhabitants of Gelmorra begin construction of the forest city of Gridania. The hamlet of Quarrymill is founded on the site where the stone is cut and harvested for building material.

That's pretty much the last mention of Gelmorra in the time-line - there's no mention of why the Duskwight who didn't move to Gridania abandon their existing city (and the Palace of the Dead storyline doesn't provide the answers I was hoping for, either).

And what of the Hyur who were living there? Did they all move to the surface? The Encyclopedia is silent on that but . . .

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1322 - The Creeping Death strikes, spreading rapidly among the Hyur of Gridania.

1327 - An alchemist sent from Ul'dah develops a cure for the Creeping Death. Though the spread is contained, the Hyuran population is left decimated by the disease, drastically transforming the racial makeup of the city.

For further reference the racial breakdown of Gridania, on page 112, gives the population as Midlander Hyur - 40%, Wildwood Elezen - 30%, Duskwight Elezen - 10%, Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te - 10%, Other - 10%.

Presumably those Hyur may largely be newer settlers but it does make me wonder if prior to the plague there were Hyur of Gelmorran descent in the Shroud that exhibited the same racial changes as the Duskwights did.

One more note from the time-line;

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1451 - The citizens of Gridania incur the ire of the elementals of the Black Shroud, awakening the greenwrath. A number of their elderly offer themselves in sacrifice to expunge the woodsin, sparing the people expulsion from the forest.

The initial Hyur and Elezen incursions into the Shroud, the expulsion of the Ixal and this incident are the only times the elementals are specifically mentioned to have gotten really annoyed. If the Keepers ever did something to anger them, it's not recorded.

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Originally Posted by Page 113, Gridania, History

Blood Between Men

In the latter 7th century of the 7th Astral Era, the second migration of Hyur came upon Eorzea, forcing Elezen from their lands and into the Black Shroud. The elementals looked upon these settlers as intruders, and sought to purge their presence from amongst the trees. Surviving accounts of this period describe chaos; the Elezen lacked knowledge of the elementals' existence and knew not what attacked them. In time, they realized what had befallen their people, and sought respite from the merciless onslaught in the caverns deep beneath the forest. They escaped annihilation - but at the cost of many Elezen lives.
Fifty years later, population growth pushed the Hyur to enter the forest as well. Upon finding people already ensconced underground, they challenged the Elezen for ownership of the habitable caves. Quarrel soon led to conflict, and the two races came to cross blades time and again.

Gelmorra

Though this conflict raged for decades, overtures towards peace had began by around the year 740. Realizing they had a common goal in avoiding the elementals' hostile gaze, the Hyur and Elezen put aside their differences. The two war-weary races sealed a pact, that both might prosper beneath the Twelveswood. The fruit of their alliance was Gelmorra, a great subterranean city. For nearly three centuries, the Elezen and Hyuran labored to expand their home, burrowing between natural caves and shoring up passages with walls of stone. In time, Gelmorra's intricate network of tunnels would come to put any antlings' nest to shame.

Around 1030, however, a great change came over the Twelveswood. Since times of eld, the elementals had allowed the Ixal to live within their forest. Yet suddenly, they cast the beastmen from the Shroud. What caused such radical change in the elementals? The commonly accepted reason is that the Ixal population had grown too great for their area of the forest to support. In enlarging their territory, they cleared new land without the elementals' consent. For this defiance, exile was their reward. When the Gelmorrans learned of this, they realized that a chance was upon them to negociate for land above ground. Those versed in the magic gathered, seeking a way to commune with the elementals through their art.

A New Nation

For a long while, the mages' attempts when unanswered. However, with perserverance came success. After fifty years of effort, they finally succeeded in relaying their wishes to the elementals. On the understanding that the Gelmorrans would defend the forest, the elementals gave them permission to return to the light of day. As a blessing and proof of their accord, they bestowed a glowing light upon Jorin Lightheart, the Huyuran leader of the mages. Thus, the Gelmorrans abandoned the caves, and began building a new home amidst the Jadeite Thick. They christened the new city Gridania.

Here it specifically states that Gelmorra was abandoned at the time Gridania was founded but if it was, why? Where did the Duskwight go, why would they leave their massive and impressive city for other caves?

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Originally Posted by Page 82, The Elezen, Clans

The two most prominent Elezen clans are the forest-dwelling Wildwood Elezen, who make their home in the Shroud, and the reclusive Duskwight. The former have a long history of cooperation with the Hyur, having jointly formed the nation of Gridania, while the latter have long since eschewed contact with other races to pursue their own path in the shadowy seclusion of Eorzea's deep tunnels and caverns. As such, the Wildwood and Duskwight each consider each other traitors to their race, and tensions between the two clans continue to the present day.

Given that Hyur-Elezen cooperation actually begun with Gelmorra, this bit seems rather biased towards making the Wildwood look better.

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Originally Posted by Page 83, Duskwight Elezen, Culture

The customs of the subterranean city of Gelmorra are still practiced by the Duskwight to this day, from architectural advances developed to stake out comfortable residences in the dank, humid caves to mystical wards that serve to stave off the fury of the elementals. The Duskwight-fashioned pomanders - urns engraved with mystical glyphs of great power and filled with fragrant herbs - are an art without parallel in the realm. Duskwight cuisine is famous for its use of Mun-Tay beans, a staple food in the subterranean depths, where they grow in abundance with no need for sunlight. That these dishes have come to be considered a Gridanian delicacy is an ironic twist, given the history between the two clans.

Though on the flip-side it's somewhat odd that Mun-Tay-based cusine would be considered cultural appropriation by Gridania, since they are legitimate descendants of Gelmorra in their own right.

BONUS ROUND - Where do the Keepers of the Moon fit into all this?

Who knows? The Lore Book's most interesting reveal about the Miqo'te was that they had been in Eorzea before the Fifth Astral Era.

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Originally Posted by Page 29: The Calamity of Ice

much of the Bloodborne Sea was frozen solid, on one hand preventing fishing and decimating the population of sea life, but on the other, allowing for the migration of Miqo'te tribes from southern Ilsabard into northern Eorzea - tribes made up of descendants of the very same Miqo'te who were persecuted against and driven from Eorzea almost two millennia earlier.

However everything after this point spins off into the known story about the Seeker Tribe names and the Eorzean Alphabet (though it's interesting that apparently didn't exist in Allagan times). We have no idea at all of when the Keepers moved into the Black Shroud.

Minfilia's story doesn't seem to add up.

Having some problems with Minfilia's story compared to 1.0 content.

According to Lore Book the Parade Incident that claimed her father's life happened the same year of the Battle of Silvertear Falls. However, Supposedly that happened 5 years ago before the Calamity if you played the Ul'dah stroyline in 1.0. Not only that but you meet Minfilia who states that the Path of the Twelve has been around researching the Echo for 10 years. According to this lore book she founded the Path at age 20 in the year 1570. That would make her 30 years old and its 8 years after the Calamity at that moment and not only that but so did the parade just a few days prior when she's 12. For non legacy players this isn't a big deal but as a Legacy player back all the way to day 1, this is insane.

Didn't most of the 1.0 starting storylines take place in an Echo of ten years prior (the start of 1.0)?

The Battle for Silvertear Skies was 15 years ago (from the start of 2.0), Gauis confirms that in a cutscene that doesn't change depending on Legacy status. 5 years ago was the Calamity.

As an aside, I finally got my Lore Book today :D So I'll be combing over it soon

I haven't played 1.0 but my understanding is that the parts where you meet Minfilia as a 12 year old are during Echo projections into the past. The actual events of 1.0 happen quiet a few years after the Parade Incident. Simply put the WoL in 1.0 used the Echo to unknowingly some how time travel. It would also explain how we appear before Cid in his memories in 2.0 when 2.0 players would have first met him years after he got his goggles.

That said, my understanding was that the actual story in 1.0 was originally all over the place and when they took over Yoshi's team had to kind of try and tack it all together to make it work better. That said, I never played 1.0 so it's second hand for me.

A lot of 1.0 cutscenes were Echo. It wasn't supposed to be obvious to the player other than a very subtle sound effect or two.
I think they planned on it being a much bigger deal and reveal later in the game, for some kind of time jump purpose, but that never happened.

Even back in 1.0 before Yoshi's team they had decided that the echo was not a means of time travel. As Minfilia states. You can interact with things but not change them. The past is set in stone. Case in point, when she has you use your echo to see into her past. Tataru doesn't remember you at all. After 2.0 they changed how the Echo cutscenes are viewed as merely an observer with no corporeal form. And you make another good point with Cid and his Goggles right before you fight Garuda. So Unless SE later reveals that you the Warrior of Light's Echo has the power to not only see but also change the past. Maybe a future Expansion like Wings of the Goddess. We can only hope Koji Fox or someone on the Lore team can explain this.