Lets nerf WAR :D

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

The only reason the other classes can't do that is because of the heal difference.Even then Paladin might stil be able to pull it off all be it a lot slower.This video should seem impressive but it really isn't for many reasons.It's unsynced,The person is in full ilvl200-210 gear.Dunno about jewelry but probbaly melded to hell and back which most of us can't afford.On top of that they had the highest lvl of echo available which is just cheap.If they'd done it unsynced withouth the echo i might have a slight bit of rspect for them as a fellow Warrior.

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LOL, this is the funniest post I've seen in awhile...!!

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Originally Posted by Disc

WAR will still reduce more total raid damage with Storm's Path while increasing raid damage tremendously with their own DPS & Storm's Eye. Killing slimes will only become easier as you get more gear or echo. Something is seriously wrong if you resort to shield bashing at that point. PLD will not see any love until their enmity is boosted or encounters shift focus towards extreme tank-busters & raid wide AoEs to slow us down.

You're a funny guy.

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Right now DRK's dmg debuff is rather a pain to use and can't be kept up 100%. Knowing SE, most likely they will either significantly boost the duration or take off the parry requirement. In fact SE prob didn't want DRK to have both dmg reduction AND -int debuff up at all times since that will be almost far too powerful (since raid damage traditionally speaking is mostly magical).

Ofc, there are also physical nukes, A1S' dread prey is an example. A Pld's RoH debuff reduces that amount, and they can also just cover a person for easy healing.

Yes, slimes will become easier to kill with gear and echo, but player skills is another matter - why do people still wipe in t9 even with full 120 gear? As a paladin you can do something about all the "shitty situations".

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Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi

@Ragnvard Im not even going to begin to delve into how incredibly ignorant brining a PLD over WAR for speed runs and farming would be, but the fact that you think that the tank balance is working as intended is clear proof you have no idea what balance is.

On one hand we have a tank which does: tremendous burst damage, contributes meaningful DPS, has invaluable raid utility, and has a strong defensive kit that not only allows them to effectively tank every encounter but allows them to cover their DPS stance with CDs.

On the other hand we have a tank that: Contributes almost nothing to DPS while tanking, has CDs that are borderline useless (Clemency, Divine Veil, Tempered Will), offers no meaningful raid utility, is generally considered a hinderence to raids, and is loaded with clunk.

So we have one tank which is a raid necessity and guarenteed a spot that has arguably no downsides and another tank that really brings nothing to the table.

Yeah bro. That's balanced.

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Speed runs? I am very familiar with them, just 2 months ago I was farming many ravanas on my pld, 2 healers (with scholar mostly dpsing), 1 tank, 5 dps. I have done it on all 3 tanks and also my scholar. Pld need less healing = more dps from healers. Also, please do not compare a warrior who tanks in full slaying+deliverance with a pld who tanks in shield oath in full fending/half fending. The DPS difference is really less than what people think. Not to mention there is still DRK in the equation who still does very good damage while in grit (and can drop grit for every blood weapon CD). DRKs imo are the undervalued tank in the DPS department.

As for cooldowns?
Foresight (~7% physical) vs Rampart (20% everything)
Bloodbath vs Convalescence
Vengeance vs Sentinel
Thrill for battle vs Bulwark
Holmgang vs Hallowed Ground

Pretty much with the entire ARR kit, pretty much pld has the superior set of cooldowns, maybe with the exception of Thrill for Battle allow the warrior to self heal.
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Equilibrium vs Clemency/Divine Veil
Raw Intuition vs Sheltron

Equilibrium I agree is better. It is not as if Clemency/Veil are useless (Veil is actually a lot stronger than what people give it credits for but take some coordination to use). RI allows a warrior to parry a series of hits (and is often used as a dps CD), but sheltron will allow a pld to pretty much block every single physical burst attack (think flatten/blind blade, etc) - how completely broken is that lol?

Considering that nearly every mob in the game, boss or trash, interrupt casts with autoattack, I'd say that clemency is pretty close to useless, especially since you cant even proc your own veil with it. Seriously do you even know what youre talking about?

Yes, sheltron can block every physical burst attack that doesnt even exist in endgame, horrendously overpowered gg square enix nerf pally. seriously? dark can mitigate every magical damage burst attack, are you going to say thats overpowered too?

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Originally Posted by Ragnvard

sheltron will allow a pld to pretty much block every single physical burst attack (think flatten/blind blade, etc) - how completely broken is that lol?

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Yeah it's pretty overpowered. It'd be like if warriors had a button that reduced damage by 20% every 17-20 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Yeah it's pretty overpowered. It'd be like if warriors had a button that reduced damage by 20% every 17-20 seconds.

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Would also be pretty OP if WAR could some how pop two of them back to back every 60 second or pop one and save the other while building up another one so you can always have one on demand! They also could perhaps heal you for the exact amount of damage you dealt. Oh and if you could some how get them faster due to them being attached to your weapon skills and the lower of GCD due to the natural increase of Skill speed over time.

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Originally Posted by Ragnvard

Right now DRK's dmg debuff is rather a pain to use and can't be kept up 100%. Knowing SE, most likely they will either significantly boost the duration or take off the parry requirement. In fact SE prob didn't want DRK to have both dmg reduction AND -int debuff up at all times since that will be almost far too powerful (since raid damage traditionally speaking is mostly magical).

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So pretty much, here, you said some crap about how you can't be bothered to manage a mechanic half the other jobs in the game have to deal with (a proc) even when you have a cooldown for which 90% of the use in a raid scenario is to trigger said proc, complained that it doesn't have 100% uptime, and then went on to state, most likely, the exact reason why it does not have said 100% uptime.

Yes, the whole REASON Reprisal is only 66% uptime is because they already have Delirium. If you're manipulating procs with Dark Dance DRK has an average of 16.6% magic mitigation and 6.6% physical mitigation to bring to the party at all times. The debuff is also off the GCD and not tied to a combo. This ties with Storm's Path in my book. Trust me, if you're playing the job right, you can keep Reprisal on CD. Dunno what you're smoking.

If anything, Reprisal+Delirium is actually more useful in the majority of raid scenarios that I can come up with off the top of my head. The extra 5 to 6.6% magic mitigation is more useful than the added physical mitigation uptime that Path provides because inarguably the vast majority of heavy raid-wide/raid-targeted damage in this game, so far, has been demonstrably magical.

T5 - Fireball/Conflag/Aetheric Profusion
T6 - Only one I'm not sure of really. Rotten Stench?
T7 - Circle of Flames
T8 - Defensive Reaction
T9 - Megaflare/Lunar Dynamo/Supernova/Fire-Ice/Thermionic Beam
T10 - Literally almost every mechanic except for the Charge and Critical Rip
T11 - Nerve Cloud
T12 - Flames of Rebirth
T13 - Gigaflare/Megaflare/Flare Star/Twisters
A1S - Gunnery Pod
A3S - Splashes/Sluice
A4S - Like, almost everything.

A2S is literally the first fight since T4/T6 where the majority of damage has been physical and even here, there isn't much raid wide damage happening regardless. The current content doesn't favor DRK, DRK favors content in the game in general, unless you're still stuck on Titan Ex I guess.

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Originally Posted by Ragnvard

Ofc, there are also physical nukes, A1S' dread prey is an example. A Pld's RoH debuff reduces that amount, and they can also just cover a person for easy healing.

Yes, slimes will become easier to kill with gear and echo, but player skills is another matter - why do people still wipe in t9 even with full 120 gear? As a paladin you can do something about all the "shitty situations".

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Most good players don't expose themselves to those "shitty situations" and prefer to play their jobs right and play with people that do the same. Also you're batshite insane if you think echo is ever coming to anything with "Savage" on the end of it. They might remove the loot lockout and progression lockout but echo/nerfs/solo-queueing is almost assuredly never coming to Savage anything. You still can't solo-queue into SCOB savage unless you're unsynced. LOL @ that.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Would also be pretty OP if WAR could some how pop two of them back to back every 60 second or pop one and save the other and if they healed you for the exact amount of damage you dealt. Oh and if you could some how get them faster due to them being attached to your weapon skills and the lower of GCD due to the natural increase of Skill speed over time.

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And just image if the skill wasn't affected by the dmg reduction of the stance it requires.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

And just image if the skill wasn't affected by the dmg reduction of the stance it requires.

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I know right! What would such a skill be name!?

@Syzygian
Exactly: my point was that why are people saying how warrior is OPed with storm's path when DRK can potentially have both -int and -dmg up at the same time? (esp one that knows how to save Reprisal procs for the busts - but that is also the pt, what if RNG hates you and you just don't parry before a bust?).

Much of my argument is about "each tank have something really strong about them in their specialty". Warrior does not need a nerf, at least not without readjusting the other tank's strengths in their respective domain.

On innerbeast:
Yes, it is strong. Warriors have always had it. It consumes our Wrath stacks (lose parry chance), and as silly as it sound, it compete with Fell Cleave (and also unchained) which is arguably the premise of why people are complaining about warriors: warriors doing a lot of damage while tanking in deliverance. Sure, we can go into defiance before a bust and hit IB, but dps loss is dps loss - note all other classes can still use their full arsenal of cooldowns not being in tank stance.

As pointed out earlier, plds have a stronger set of active cooldown and the passive RNG protect of their shield. Also due to healing skills not being affected by the defiance healing buff, the passive damage reduction of a pld is also a better one.

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Originally Posted by Ragnvard

Much of my argument is about "each tank have something really strong about them in their specialty". Warrior does not need a nerf, at least not without readjusting the other tank's strengths in their respective domain.

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If that has been your point I'm very confused as to why you're arguing that DRK is somehow weak & that PLD should not be buffed because they can blow their TP stunning for a party that will never pass enrage timers.