I think its time BRD get some loving

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

-Reduce mana ticks for songs

-Keep the 20% damage reduction for Mana and TP songs... but reduce the damage penalty the longer it stays up. For example, Ballad originally starts with a 20% reduction to damage, after 10 seconds it drops to 15%, another 10 seconds it drops to 10% until it eventually caps out at 5% damage reduction.

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So basically let Bards have songs up permanently and only 5% damage decrease...

You know what? Defiance and Shield Oath also shouldn't give such a severe damage penalty because reasons.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

So basically let Bards have songs up permanently and only 5% damage decrease...

You know what? Defiance and Shield Oath also shouldn't give such a severe damage penalty because reasons.

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How would songs stay up permanently? they require mana, even with reduced ticks it would still run out shortly after receiving 5% damage reduction.

Using Tanks in your example makes no sense.. they are "tanks" they aren't there to produce damage but rather soak damage... as apposed to Bards being classified as "DPS"

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

How would songs stay up permanently? they require mana, even with reduced ticks it would still run out shortly after receiving 5% damage reduction.

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Going by your numbers a Bard singing songs would reach 5% damage penalty after 30 seconds. My i90 1800ish MP Bard can sing Paeon for 1 minute before running out of MP (Ballad lasts longer of course). So using current mana costs 50% duration of the song would have them at 5%. This is before we even reduce mana ticks.

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

Using Tanks in your example makes no sense.. they are "tanks" they aren't there to produce damage but rather soak damage... as apposed to Bards being classified as "DPS"

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Oh, I can pull out plenty of reasons out of my rear as to why tank damage shouldn't be so nerfed that are just as valid as the reasons being given for why Bards "need" a buff.

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

DPS is calculated with damage, boss HP, and fight time.

For a bard to do 500 in T13, the melee are probaly barely cracking 400, SCH not attacking much, and OT probally also using VIT accessories, and maybe has a SMN instead of BLM.

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Uhhh, what? The higher the DPS, the shorter a fight will last. If a BRD is breaking 500 DPS, that means the rest are arguably around 550 to 600 (maybe lower if mechanics are a pain to deal with). They probably have a DRG or at least a NIN as the 2nd melee DPS, too. The SCH would probably be pushing some decent DPS, too, and the OT should be wearing either melded or STR accessories to help make the fight shorter (we're talking WARs that push 300+ by stance dancing). By claiming that high BRD DPS means everyone else is underperforming is baseless conjecture which doesn't belong in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Uhhh, what? The higher the DPS, the shorter a fight will last. If a BRD is breaking 500 DPS, that means the rest are arguably around 550 to 600 (maybe lower if mechanics are a pain to deal with). They probably have a DRG or at least a NIN as the 2nd melee DPS, too. The SCH would probably be pushing some decent DPS, too, and the OT should be wearing either melded or STR accessories to help make the fight shorter (we're talking WARs that push 300+ by stance dancing). By claiming that high BRD DPS means everyone else is underperforming is baseless conjecture which doesn't belong in this discussion.

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I apologize. Analyzed it and I would probably hit 500 or very close with DRG+NIN instead of MNK and using pots.

And it isn't baseless. If you or anyone in your group uses a parsor you can test it. If you have good Sch that does 200+ and WAR that does 250 ish, you can easily see other classes DPS drop acordingly.

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

-Give us a DPS limit break

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Sadly we are already getting it... And I for one am not happy about it. Would be nice if we get the option of either-either though. I've used it plenty of time to save runs so yes I prefer the heal LB we have now.

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-Keep the 20% damage reduction for Mana and TP songs... but reduce the damage penalty the longer it stays up. For example, Ballad originally starts with a 20% reduction to damage, after 10 seconds it drops to 15%, another 10 seconds it drops to 10% until it eventually caps out at 5% damage reduction.

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Why do people have serious issues with the penalty? The only time it's really relevant is during learning - once you have some understanding of the fight you will know when you can and can't sign to optimize your DPS. That is also part of your job. To know when to do it. A DPS check coming up? Foe would be good but healers will need MP soon - judge if you can do a 30s burst of singing before the check or wait until after - manage your limited MP as well.

People need TP? Got any CDs about to come up(or use an x-dex pot - I tend to save the pot CD for either a MP pot or if we need to push a bit more)? Sing and pop them to balance out the penalty - apply dots pre signing.

People say bard is a simple job - yes but you have a ton of other stuff to keep aware of along with usually needing to handle certain mechanics.

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

I apologize. Analyzed it and I would probably hit 500 or very close with DRG+NIN instead of MNK and using pots.

And it isn't baseless. If you or anyone in your group uses a parsor you can test it. If you have good Sch that does 200+ and WAR that does 250 ish, you can easily see other classes DPS drop acordingly.

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How does one class doing more or less dps affect other class's output? Outside of debuffs on the boss that boost damage for some classes, the only thing more dps would do is shorten the fight.

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

How does one class doing more or less dps affect other class's output? Outside of debuffs on the boss that boost damage for some classes, the only thing more dps would do is shorten the fight.

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Well I can't name the parser due to TOS I guess, but that's how it works. Usually when OT / sch does very good DPS you see the numbers of the other DPS fall off. They are "taking away" damage that the other DPS would normally do, leading to killing the boss faster, leading to less total damage the DPS classes does.

It's the same case with DPS too. There's MNK out there who did 595, so the other party members numbers get lower than usual.

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

Well I can't name the parser due to TOS I guess, but that's how it works. Usually when OT / sch does very good DPS you see the numbers of the other DPS fall off. They are "taking away" damage that the other DPS would normally do, leading to killing the boss faster, leading to less total damage the DPS classes does.

It's the same case with DPS too. There's MNK out there who did 595, so the other party members numbers get lower than usual.

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ehm one thing is DPS and another one is % dmg , if others do more % that means u will do less % ,but that doesnt change your DPS.

if u do 200 dps , u will do 200 no matter what others pt members do (outside of buffs/debuffs but thats a given)

>.< Bard doesn 't require positionals. Bard can dps while moving. They don't have much cooldown um..maybe instead of looking at what a bard can't do..Maybe we should list the pros and cons of the bard job.