Difficulty of normal content.

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Originally Posted by albeva

Attacking and belittling others because not everyone meets your skill expectations? News flash: Not everyone plays the game for the challenge or has time to repeatedly wipe to learn complex tactics and dances in these fights. Many people have other things going on than just this game (kids, family, work, other hobbies, health reasons; take your pick), people who just play the game... you know... to have some fun?

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

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I agree with you but get ready to be bullied repeatedly by fanboys. I gave up posting why and now just /support the cause.

Honestly it’s kinda bizarre to me that people can say ‘I want it to be so easy I don’t have to think about my performance, gear, or party in any way and it should never change’. Like, as mentioned above literally no game in existence works that way? Even that goddamn Snake game on the old mobiles has progressive difficulty.

The idea that content difficulty should remain literally identical between level 50 and level 100 content just doesn’t make any sense lol. I certainly can’t think of any games where the difficulty level literally does not increase through the game’s duration.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Honestly it’s kinda bizarre to me that people can say ‘I want it to be so easy I don’t have to think about my performance, gear, or party in any way and it should never change’. Like, as mentioned above literally no game in existence works that way? Even that goddamn Snake game on the old mobiles has progressive difficulty.

The idea that content difficulty should remain literally identical between level 50 and level 100 content just doesn’t make any sense lol. I certainly can’t think of any games where the difficulty level literally does not increase through the game’s duration.

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People got too drunk on dopamine and have become addicted to it. Anymore, if gaming doesn't constantly hit them with dopamine, then they rage quit.

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Originally Posted by albeva

Attacking and belittling others because not everyone meets your skill expectations? News flash: Not everyone plays the game for the challenge or has time to repeatedly wipe to learn complex tactics and dances in these fights. Many people have other things going on than just this game (kids, family, work, other hobbies, health reasons; take your pick), people who just play the game... you know... to have some fun?

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

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I'm sorry, the very fact that you are all unwilling to wipe to the content at all means that you just feel entitled to success and don't understand how or why people find video gaming fun. You are supposed to be challenged. This is something games have strived to do since the dawn of video gaming. You are expected to learn, adapt, and overcome. What is a common theme in the story arcs of 14? A character, or a group of characters, is faced with stiff opposition, adapt, and eventually overcome said opposition. This was the case with the Ascians. This was the case with being stripped of the Blessing. This was the case with Zenos. This was the case with Endwalker. This is the case with Wuk Lamat and Bakool Ja Ja. If you cannot learn to adapt and overcome a challenge, then I am tempted to unironically say that no, you do not, infact, deserve to complete the content. You are playing the game and reading the story and fundamentally failing to learn from even that, let alone the content that goes with the story. You are failing at even immersing yourself in MSQ. Do you not go through the story and feel any moment where you're resolved to overcome somebody? Some form of challenge? I will wager you don't. You wouldn't care enough to.

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Originally Posted by albeva

And who is the arbiter on where the line is? It is quite clear the game has gone a bit too far.

These past few weeks, we have already seen the consequences. I've had several roulettes for dungeons and raids where half the group quit after the first wipe. We used to make fun of this - a problem the other MMOs had... NOT FFXIV. We prided how we soldier on, we wipe and just have another go!

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We prided on how we soldier on, wipe and just have another go!

You said it yourself. If people are no longer doing that, then those people are quite literally going against your own description of the community at large. Maybe those people, too, aren't fit for this game and jumped in because Endwalker got a little too pampering, rather than that the game is "going too far" when wiping to mechanics, picking ourselves back up and trying again is literally something you yourself said we do and completely demolishes any credibility to your argument.

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Originally Posted by albeva

And who is the arbiter on where the line is? It is quite clear the game has gone a bit too far.!

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Clearly you are. Content is already starting to become a joke again, because of new gear being released. nothing needs to change

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Originally Posted by albeva

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

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Then why play video games at all?

I'm sorry, but this laidback approach belongs in Second Life, IMVU, or VRChat. It's giving, "Yeah guys, I'm just here to vibe and chill."

Okay, cool, but I want to get the instance done and be on my way.

Is that toxic? No. While I'm not here to smell the flowers if I'm on a roulette, I can and will be patient enough to help if someone speaks up. People would be happy to give out pointers on how to answer hard mechanics, just like many have stated here in this forum thread. I do not expect perfection as I'm just in there to do my job and get compensated for it (Tomestones, gil, etc.). The only thing I expect for anyone else in my party is to try to do their best in their ability. If your best looks like you messing up here and there in regular content, so long that you're not intentionally griefing/trolling, that's okay. Heck, I mess up, too. I'm not perfect.

However, it becomes a problem when you just give up and not learn the mechanics and your job kit. I am well aware that learning isn't an issue for OP, but if they're repeatedly failing a mechanic, it's most likely not the game's fault. It's likely OP. Whether it's actual internet issues or actual skill issue, you should want to adapt and solve. Seeing this thread existing is somewhat bizarre as it flies in the face of why people play games.

At the end of the day, dumbing things down for a very tiny minority will not help anyone in the long run. Not you, and not the devs, either. To those with disabilities or real-life responsibilities that affect your gameplay, I do feel you, but you shouldn't make it the dev's responsibility to keep catering to you when it comes to difficulty. You need to manage that on your own. No matter when you started, you have jobs at lv 100 now, the training wheels era ended back at lv 50.

While this game does allow for that kind of casual, laidback content, there is a time and a place for them. Dungeons, trials, and raids never were those places. It's a shame that Endwalker pampered you so well to have an opinion like this.

Edit: I do want to pose a question to OP and those in favor: Why are you doing normal mode raids? If you're not preparing yourself for Savage, why go through with it in the first place?

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

I do not expect perfection as I'm just in there to do my job and get compensated for it (Tomestones, gil, etc.). The only thing I expect for anyone else in my party is to try to do their best in their ability. If your best looks like you messing up here and there in regular content, so long that you're not intentionally griefing/trolling, that's okay. Heck, I mess up, too. I'm not perfect.

However, it becomes a problem when you just give up and not learn the mechanics and your job kit.

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Big agree. As a side tangent to this, it is unfortunate and sad how many people intentionally conflate elitism with an expectation of effort. I would like to get it done and dusted because I am showing up in a roulette for a reason and I expect that people at least try to kill the content at a reasonable speed and try to do better. It isn't necessary to be very optimal but I expect you to at least try and follow the Rule of Threes for AoEs, to not be half-AFK (or fully AFK, nowadays), to try and do damage on a healer, ect. if you aren't new. That's not called being elitist, that's called wanting to be reasonable. And yet, people shout you down for being "elitist" if you speak up about anybody, put their fingers in their ears and keep repeating "it isn't Savage" as a mantra because they simply cannot be bothered to put the slightest bit of effort in. They want to make everything other peoples' responsibility because "it's a game, let me play how I want and have fun!".

What about other peoples' fun then? Who the hell do they think they are to be more important than 3 or 7 other people?

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Originally Posted by albeva

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

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Main character energy here. We expect people to at least engage in the game enough to not be complete dead weight. Minimal effort is more than enough for 80 percent of the content. Ofc I'd rather it be more than minimal but beggers can't be choosers right?

Imagine if you were an npc in the games main story who just wins all the time. Never having to fail even once. Your perfect in every way. That's such a boring character and everyone would comments on that fact.

Now flip it back as the player, you never fail, never wipe, and you need not expend more than what's needed to clear a fight. This is what the hyper casuals want out of the game. How boring is that? Does that really sound fun? No I doubt you would say it is. Games should be engaging, fun and challenging. It's a fine line to get that right, currently ff14 is fun, but engaging? Its got a ways to go before it settels on that tight rope walk.

It is in now way toxic for the majority of the player base to want someone engaging fun and challenging in a nice balancing act. It is however pretty entitled of people wanting the game to cater to all people and not be at a target audience. A game for everyone is a game for nobody.

If players can't understand that the games just not catered to them or does not offer something that is of interest? that's their issue and should not affect the player base who actually cares about the health of it. Why play a game that your not engaged with? not having fun with how the direction of the game is going? Do what yoshi P has Said a few times before. Play a different game if you don't have anything to do/don't like the content that's out.

Entitlement to brain dead easy peezy mode in normal optional content and even in msq to make it even more brain dead. Is laughably sad.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

Edit: I do want to pose a question to OP and those in favor: Why are you doing normal mode raids? If you're not preparing yourself for Savage, why go through with it in the first place?

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I can't remember where I mentioned this tidbit before but. I remember mentioning that if it's for the glamor? you can't even dye it unless you do the savage tier. Nor could it be for ILvL because you won't need it at all, once the tome gear got released and the ally catchup gear is out. So for both main reasons that you would do them there is no point besides just simply doing the fights. Of which OP had given up after the second fight of ACC M2 and has since not stated they have done M3 or M4 at all.

*insert kronk with a map*
"You got me, by all accounts it doesn't make sense"

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Originally Posted by alfarini

I can't remember where I mentioned this tidbit before but. I remember mentioning that if it's for the glamor? you can't even dye it unless you do the savage tier. Nor could it be for ILvL because you won't need it at all, once the tome gear got released and the ally catchup gear is out. So for both main reasons that you would do them there is no point besides just simply doing the fights. Of which OP had given up after the second fight of ACC M2 and has since not stated they have done M3 or M4 at all.

*insert kronk with a map*
"You got me, by all accounts it doesn't make sense"

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Besides the extra avenue for tomestones, you do have the minion at M4 and the music rolls that can drop in each tier.

If they also call themselves a collector, these may still entice them to go through with the fights to get them. So, it makes sense to keep grinding those fights, as we do everywhere else in this game.

But you'd have to practice and work at it to eventually get a good roll at them. And that's if you don't just outright buy the rolls in the marketboard.

Yes, the fights were initially tough, because this forum thread was literally made HOURS after the raid patch went live, but the rewards are worth it if you care about 'em.

Otherwise, yeah, there's no reason to go do these optional normal raids for the "casual" player.

Actually i also have to agree. I to expect ppl to be much better at their jobs. Like if I was a citzen in eorzea I asked a veteran to pick me herbs in a lvl 1 area that vet would laugh. Yet if i asked you to slay a lvl 100 dragon and you struggled... I would question your purpose. If you are still struggling at playing the game. You may have finally hit your difficulty wall. Unless you the player are willing to become stronger than goid job but if you choose not too. Im sorry but yes you are holding others back. If you chose to heal be better, if you chose to tank be better, if you chose to dps do better. We are lvl 100 and still struggling at a 10 year + game.... I really wonder how dis you guys get this far or even pass pharos sirus and thunder god cid.

Failure builds character but being easy all the time strokes your ego. Your dull blades that need to be sharpened look up guides to better understand your class or play normal raids to better understand timming in this game..... Your lvl 100 act like it.

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Originally Posted by alfarini

I can't remember where I mentioned this tidbit before but. I remember mentioning that if it's for the glamor? you can't even dye it unless you do the savage tier. Nor could it be for ILvL because you won't need it at all, once the tome gear got released and the ally catchup gear is out. So for both main reasons that you would do them there is no point besides just simply doing the fights. Of which OP had given up after the second fight of ACC M2 and has since not stated they have done M3 or M4 at all.

*insert kronk with a map*
"You got me, by all accounts it doesn't make sense"

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Because is something to do other than grind roulettes, and to get gear, even if it's going to be replaced by TS gear later. But that doesn't matter now since I'm not doing the tier I don't need the gear right now anyway (particularly not this set that's ugly af).

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

Besides the extra avenue for tomestones, you do have the minion at M4 and the music rolls that can drop in each tier.

If they also call themselves a collector, these may still entice them to go through with the fights to get them. So, it makes sense to keep grinding those fights, as we do everywhere else in this game.

But you'd have to practice and work at it to eventually get a good roll at them. And that's if you don't just outright buy the rolls in the marketboard.

Yes, the fights were initially tough, because this forum thread was literally made HOURS after the raid patch went live, but the rewards are worth it if you care about 'em.

Otherwise, yeah, there's no reason to go do these optional normal raids for the "casual" player.

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I actually forgot about the minion and music roll lmao, all good points for sure.

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

Because is something to do other than grind roulettes, and to get gear, even if it's going to be replaced by TS gear later. But that doesn't matter now since I'm not doing the tier I don't need the gear right now anyway (particularly not this set that's ugly af).

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You could have done A-Rank Hunt trains or joined a Treasure Map party if you needed Tomestones that badly. Both of which are relatively easy and doesn't take much brainpower to do.

I get you wanted gear progression, but as you said so yourself, it doesn't matter, anymore. And guess what—It's going to keep happening with each set of raids, as it has been since HW. Maybe consider that Normal Raids weren't for you in the first place, regardless of difficulty.

Like, I'm sorry you felt like you hit a wall, but the option to practice and get better is always on the table for you. If you want to vibe and chill, there are places for that, just not in raids.

Boy, I sure can't wait for the next thread about how Alliance Raids are too hard.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

You could have done A-Rank Hunt trains or joined a Treasure Map party if you needed Tomestones that badly. Both of which are relatively easy and doesn't take much brainpower to do.

I get you wanted gear progression, but as you said so yourself, it doesn't matter, anymore. And guess what—It's going to keep happening with each set of raids, as it has been since HW. Maybe consider that Normal Raids weren't for you in the first place, regardless of difficulty.

Like, I'm sorry you felt like you hit a wall, but the option to practice and get better is always on the table for you. If you want to vibe and chill, there are places for that, just not in raids.

Boy, I sure can't wait for the next thread about how Alliance Raids are too hard.

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The only issue I have getting TS is the weekly limit, it takes like two months to get a full set of gear that way. And yes, I am afraid of what they gonna do for alliances, but I'm even more afraid for the the Bozja type content that it's coming.

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

The only issue I have getting TS is the weekly limit, it takes like two months to get a full set of gear that way. And yes, I am afraid of what they gonna do for alliances, but I'm even more afraid for the the Bozja type content that it's coming.

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Well considering they are being based on FF11, and as someone who has played 11, I promise you if you think this content is too hard. LOL you could barely make it out of the starting area without the help of someone in 11.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

You need to manage that on your own. No matter when you started, you have jobs at lv 100 now, the training wheels era ended back at lv 50.

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Sadly many get level 70, 80 or even 90 and dare saying "hey im still new!" like they didnt AT LEAST do the needed duties...

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

The only issue I have getting TS is the weekly limit, it takes like two months to get a full set of gear that way. And yes, I am afraid of what they gonna do for alliances, but I'm even more afraid for the the Bozja type content that it's coming.

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well i hope the ally raid is harder than before, i mean its 24 man raids. why shouldn't it be harder as long as its not just massive HP pools of bosses. imo i want players to get doom if they fail a mech 3 times. vulns are fine but it doesn't force players to learn if they know they can soak a mech. as for the explore zone? i guess we'll see, it better be fun and challenging.

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

The only issue I have getting TS is the weekly limit, it takes like two months to get a full set of gear that way. And yes, I am afraid of what they gonna do for alliances, but I'm even more afraid for the the Bozja type content that it's coming.

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I'm sorry, but you had 4 expansions to figure out that this is what endgame looks like. It always has been that way since ARR.

We're literally a month into Dawntrail now, we're all are kind of figuring things out still. It makes no sense for you to gear yourself up quicker if you're not willing to put in the work for it. I think people will leave a lot sooner if we all got BiS gear faster and have nothing else to work on. I mean, I can assume that you have no interest in any hard content so..

Why even work towards gear progression if you're just gonna get the next gear to replace it as soon as the next big patch drops?

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Sadly many get level 70, 80 or even 90 and dare saying "hey im still new!" like they didnt AT LEAST do the needed duties...

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I still believe Jump potions are a mistake.

I don't find skip potions so much a mistake as it is the people using them don't take the time to really learn their job when new to the game. Granted, not every job has a simple learning curve, and some really depends on the player themselves (Me personally, BLM is my bane compared to any other job, always mess up on it). When people don't take the time to read and learn how the job flows, then they are going to struggle when it comes to doing harder content where being able to play the job is second nature allowing to focus on what is going on.


People who weren't there just after each expansion release tend to not know that with lower ilvl gear, fights were harder and took paying attention to survive. Pretty much anything ARR-EW now lets you get to the ilvl cap relatively easy so long as you have poetics to spend on the gear you need, and it is a huge damage/damage mit change from the ilvl up to 49/59/69/79/89 to 50/60/70/80/90. Usually about 50-70 ilvl in difference in fact. While yes they do ilvl cap some dungeons to keep artificial difficulty within a certain limit, some of these usually set the bar higher than others so there isn't a 'face roll' effect like we had before they put ilvl restrictions on some of the ARR content (IE rolling in with ilvl 130 for content made with ilvl 50-60 made the content laughably easy, now it is just...easy due to ilvl cap). The problem is, those who weren't there for those varied gear tiers early on are saying content is far to difficult now simply cause...it is their first experience with it.



Not really excusing them, just saying they haven't experienced it before so technically they are still 'new' in that respect regardless of using Skip potions.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

I still believe Jump potions are a mistake.

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They are.

Like i havent played some jobs since.. literally 6.0 hit and yet im still doing... ok? Still better then many of those who skipped through half the game lol

Its not just the leveling, its also doing all the fights, dungeons, even just fates gettin a feeling for the job, timings, how to get things back on track if sh### hits the fan... I always die on the inside when i see tanks and healers just lacking the skill/experience or just awareness to save a situation... like you still encounter lv 90 tanks without LB on their hotbars...

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I'm not sure I really "enjoyed" it so much as I was just glad it was over, and that's how I've felt on subsequent runs trying to collect stuff from them. It's not really "fun" so much as "necessary" because there's no way to get things like the minions otherwise. As for looking forward to the next challenge, that's where the dilemma lies, that I'm not sure I even *could* deal with the next challenges depending on how the game ramps up from here and at some point I'll have to start skipping optional content and relying on Duty Support/Trusts to get me through the mandatory stuff because I would just be a blight in the duty finder otherwise.

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This is 100% the wrong attitude to take. If you're so dead-set on remaining bad, then you'll remain bad. No one ever starts at their peak performance in anything whatsoever. You start at a baseline, and everyone's baseline is different, and then you improve from that baseline. You can either work toward improving and relish in the noticeable improvements, or you can remain complacent and complain that things are too difficult. You don't need to make a job out of the game to improve beyond what's necessary to complete this content, also. FFXIV's known as the MMO that respects your time for a reason. The mechanics may differ in difficulty to execute, but they always share one thing: They're easy to learn. The exceptions to this are all in what one would consider high-end content, but that's the point of that content. Savage mechanics are by no means more difficult to execute than normal mechanics. The added difficulty that savage brings is that the mechanics are more obfuscated and complex. You have overlapping mechanics in savage that aren't present in normal. The telegraphs are faster or less in your face, if they're even present. This all makes it a bigger challenge to LEARN, but once you learn them, the actual execution is often times EASIER than the normal mode due to more static patterns. I legitimately have a more difficult time running P2 normal than I do running P2 savage because P2 savage is more heavily scripted than P2 normal is. I'll find myself doing savage strats that just don't work in normal.

Have you ever seen the look on someone's face when they lose 50+ lbs after months of hard work in the gym? They're ecstatic because of the improvement. They see the results of their hard work and it makes all of that work worth the effort. The same can be said about improvement in all facets. Rather than taking the attitude of "I give up!", you'll be doing yourself a great service if you change it to, "How can I do better?"

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

The only issue I have getting TS is the weekly limit, it takes like two months to get a full set of gear that way. And yes, I am afraid of what they gonna do for alliances, but I'm even more afraid for the the Bozja type content that it's coming.

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If you don't wanna put effort in getting better in content like Expert or Normal Raids BUT are still interested in gear progression, just do hunts

Weekly limit is a problem for anyone that doesnt do savage and its a design choice that's been there for years

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People who weren't there just after each expansion release tend to not know that with lower ilvl gear, fights were harder and took paying attention to survive. Pretty much anything ARR-EW now lets you get to the ilvl cap relatively easy so long as you have poetics to spend on the gear you need, and it is a huge damage/damage mit change from the ilvl up to 49/59/69/79/89 to 50/60/70/80/90. Usually about 50-70 ilvl in difference in fact. While yes they do ilvl cap some dungeons to keep artificial difficulty within a certain limit, some of these usually set the bar higher than others so there isn't a 'face roll' effect like we had before they put ilvl restrictions on some of the ARR content (IE rolling in with ilvl 130 for content made with ilvl 50-60 made the content laughably easy, now it is just...easy due to ilvl cap). The problem is, those who weren't there for those varied gear tiers early on are saying content is far to difficult now simply cause...it is their first experience with it.

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Putting that into perspective, do you then not think that the closer they get to current content, that difficulty curve is warranted? They should know by the time they hit Dawntrail Normal Raids that:


- They're expected to have some understanding of their job kit.
- They should have their gear updated as possible.
- They're about to answer mechanics they likely haven't seen before.


Normal Mode Raids in general are allowed to be as difficult as reasonably possible, mostly because it's optional content. Even then, it's never impossible to overcome. These people who jump content and get all surprised pikachu face when current optional content asks more of you have no room to complain.

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

I don't find skip potions so much a mistake as it is the people using them don't take the time to really learn their job when new to the game. Granted, not every job has a simple learning curve, and some really depends on the player themselves (Me personally, BLM is my bane compared to any other job, always mess up on it). When people don't take the time to read and learn how the job flows, then they are going to struggle when it comes to doing harder content where being able to play the job is second nature allowing to focus on what is going on.

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As I stated previously, I don't come into an instance expecting perfection. Thankfully, I have yet to come across a player who just straight up gives up because their job is too hard. But if I point out a fixable flaw (Broken gear, using more of their kit, etc.), 9 times out of 10 I'm receiving defensive backlash and labeled an elitist. All I'd want to do is help, but I'm apparently conforming a playstyle and giving unwanted advice if I call to attention that will benefit them. So lesson learned, I shut my trap more often and pray that I get through the instance at a timely manner. That kind of a flaw is on both dev team and the player. I do wish that there was more mandatory tutorials to prepare new players what on they're getting themselves into.

Alts I'm fine with.

(I realize I posted kinda backwards, but oh well.)

I want to make something clear that I somewhat alluded to in my previous comment: I don't care where another player's skill level is in something as long as their skill level is accompanied with 2 things: 1: Be upfront about where you are. If you're a casual player that hasn't cleared anything EX or savage and you're making or joining a PF, just accurately portray where you are in that, and 2: Be TRYING to improve. Be open to advice.

If you misrepresent where your skill level or prog point are, you're just going to anger those you're with. If you aren't TRYING to improve, then you're just wasting everyone else's time. If someone offers advice, even if they're rude about it, listen to them. Turning your ears off means you think you're above their advice, and I can assure you, you're not. Even the top ranking player of every job has something they don't know or somewhere that they can improve. Refusing to take someone's advice, regardless of who that person is or how they present it, is nothing but foolishness. Now... that doesn't mean that their advice is necessarily correct... Discern whether their advice is valid or not AFTER hearing it. If it's not, then write it off afterwards.

While I am certainly nowhere near the top of players, and won't try to act like I am, I know that my skill level is substantially higher than the average. Despite that, I'm regularly in a situation where someone who's not even a high end raider teaches me something I didn't know. I welcome those moments, because it helps me improve. Now.... occasionally I get things that are just incorrect... like another DNC complaining that I insist on being their dance partner despite both of us being DNC in a dungeon... Can't tell you how many times I've gotten the "Dance partner doesn't stack!!!"

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I don't think I have to worry about that, I know to stay in my lane as it were, it's just not knowing how much that lane is going to narrow (or drop off completely) going forward because I have doubts about my competency up until now when comparing my performance to others doing the exact same content with less struggle/better results, and that it was likely *their* actions and not mine that even got me this far.

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comparison is the thief of joy - don't worry about others doing better or worse. just do your best, if WoL acted only alone, they'd get wrecked in ARR. they didn't, because they had allies and friends behind them.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I don't think I have to worry about that, I know to stay in my lane as it were, it's just not knowing how much that lane is going to narrow (or drop off completely) going forward because I have doubts about my competency up until now when comparing my performance to others doing the exact same content with less struggle/better results, and that it was likely *their* actions and not mine that even got me this far.

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You still totally missed the point of my original reply to you... Complacency is bad, in almost all aspects of life. As a person, you should seek to improve yourself in life. Likewise, as a gamer, you should seek to improve yourself in game. Where you actually start and finish doesn't matter so much as long as you're actively improving. While yes, you'll occasionally come across the mouth breathers that won't accept anything below orange (they likely don't reach orange anyway, let's be real...), those are very few and rare to encounter. If you don't have one of those in a group, and you are upfront about where you actually are, then the rest of the group you're with will accommodate. This is the most common scenario that happens in duty finder and party finder. The other most common scenario, however, is someone not being upfront and honest about where they are. They setup a party finder at a prog point far beyond what they've actually even seen, let alone cleaned up. This lack of setting proper expectations leads to frustration from the group.

Yes, this is primarily advice for PF, but the exact same advice applies to all duties. If you enter a raid you've never done in DF, just say, "It's my first time" and the rest will be understanding of failures. If it's a raid that you struggle with, say "I have a hard time getting this one." and the rest will be sympathetic, most likely. From there, just try to do better. You may not even DO better... but as long as you try, that's all 95% of the player base asks. If you are sincerely trying, you might have a veteren take notice and offer advice. If so, then listen to the advice. It may be wrong, it may be right, but listen either way. Discern the advice after the fact and decide if it should be applied. This is the meat and potatoes of FFXIV group content.

You had a few expansions and 100 levels in your belt.
Make 'em count.

Indifferent to this topic, don't care either way, just wanna say "if you watched this streamers videos" is one of the most humiliating things any of you could ever possibly write in your entire lives, and I really wish all of you would stop doing that. I'd ask if they're paying you guys to come here and promo their useless video's, but there's 0 chance any of them have that kind of money to spare, so either they've begged you, or you all pity their low views that much, idk. Either way though, please stop shilling streamer/youtube videos to watch lol. No. I am not watching your videos. I am not watching your streams. And coming here and reading 50 comments of "go watch xyz" is nothing more than yet another ad in a world that feels 4 seconds away from mandatorily implanting ad playing chips in our minds. Stop advertising. Stop it. Stay on topic with your own opinions, not the opinions and content of someone else. Thanks.

You know....if Sphene had made those soul/memory implants "free to res" and ad driven, she would probably still be around now.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I don't think I have to worry about that, I know to stay in my lane as it were, it's just not knowing how much that lane is going to narrow (or drop off completely) going forward because I have doubts about my competency up until now when comparing my performance to others doing the exact same content with less struggle/better results, and that it was likely *their* actions and not mine that even got me this far.

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That's why we have infinite combat resurrections. You died? Rise up and keep going, if the other 3/7 know what they are doing you will complete everything MSQ related with no problem.

There's one thing to consider. For some reason I see you consider yourself "less competent than the others doing the exact same content, with less struggle/better results..." This people you are comparing yourself were exaclty like you the first time they reached that content, and if they look "competent" is because they already know it. This line reached me, because yesterday, after some years, I decided to do EXTREME trials again (last time was in Stormblood) and MAN what a hard time I had in the second extreme in some specific phase. Then after some wipes (and even an out of nowhere clear lol) I felt total shit and told to the party "I'm so sorry I suck at this mechanic, it just melts my brain". My surprise when at least other 4 people, that I thought they were such PRO players, started saying "omg me too, I just follow player A" and player A "what, I was just following player B" and player B was there like "I dunno what I'm doing lol". Meaning that I was thinking so low about myself but we all were struggling as.F. Then we started talking about mechanics where we suck and I was so surprise how other players can struggle at stuff I find easy, but they are gods at mechanics I just cannot.

Don't worry, you won't find this "wall you cannot pass" on the MSQ. And if you die, rise and repeat, and ask/tell your teammates.

I disagree with your assertion that they are more challenging. Perhaps more engaging, but not more difficult, and I'm a casual going into Savage. My group took a week to kill M1S, but that's because 95% of us are new to Savage mode this expansion.