The issue with balancing the fairy group heal is that is it mana free... so it wouldn't really be possible to just give it a regular cast time without reducing potency even further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk
Having a CD on it (a shorter one) would allow at least some potency boost perhaps... and a fix to the pet UI where you could toggle autouse of abilities would make it an on demand ability.
The problem is that you can't just say that the pet regen should be able to be up all the time at the same potency as medica 2, because it is mp free. Having it up frequently and less potent than medica 2 (but still adequate to help fill in the gaps) is imo the best solution.
As far as the issue with adlo and succor not stacking- that is a separate class mechanics issue. It does need be addressed in a way that affects SCH x 2, but not single SCH healing.
OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!
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10-09-2013, 04:36 AMApolloGenX
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10-09-2013, 04:51 AMErianeIn any fight where Medica 2 is used you have time to let it tick. Scholars can heal two targets at once and with a little communication can heal a raid, moreso if fairies cd's are alternated. Not optimal but scholars are doing it. Plus they have damage reduction via skills like virus, eye and soil not to mention preshielding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk
And no, succor does not need to be medica 2. If scholars raid heal as effectively as a white mage with no mana issues or threat issues why would anyone play a whm. Regardless of individual opinions on effective health via shielding the mechanic exists. If you don't like proactive healing roll a whm. Hope you have a good tank and bard. -
10-09-2013, 06:50 AMAlu79People like this one here are the reason why classes that need help never get it. They assume classes are fine as is as if the almighty Devs don't screw up ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriane
Never mind this was a class that never got beta tested, or that 2 SCH have to jump through so many hoops on top of group playing flawlessly, or that the utility that people keep spouting on about are easily available to WHM, Or that the Fairy is buggy, has crap AI, the listed potencies for the Fairy are actually MUCH weaker than player versions, that Succor actually doesn't get crit shields the way Adlo does, or that there are too many skills that use charges, charges that you can only use 3 times a minute.
No, SCH are perfect as is obviously. Well, fine from a WHM's perspective right? Isn't that all that matters? -
10-09-2013, 07:24 AMNoriega
I dont know if this means much, but the other languages are monitoring this thread as well and some are seemingly in agreement that scholar is at the very least, inferiour to WHM (and the pet being unsatisfactory)
So, assuming SE does listen to vocals, i can see something being done with scholar at least with QOL. -
10-09-2013, 07:42 AMErianeThis isn't the first thread on this, I was referring to scholars on these very forums who responded to posts that literally asked the same question, how do two scholars heal? Also, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned on this forum several times that pet needs fixes, and that sch/sch issues need to be addressed. The post was specific to a post saying succor needs the potency of medica 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu79
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10-09-2013, 07:53 AMNoctrin
If SE thinks SCH is fine at harder difficulties, they must not play the class. Anyone that thinks SCH is fine for damage heavy encounters has not played it, or has never compared it with an equally competent WHM. I like the class design, i think it should be unique and i believe an ideal composition should have a 1:1 ratio of WHM to SCH, but, SE really needs to give us some better scaling and fix a plethora of issues with the pets for SCH to be on par with WHM. I've said this many times, based on the huge oversights and bugs on pets alone, this class was not tested properly at all and was clearly rushed to meet deadlines. The class isn't terrible or useless and it's easy enough to fix. I have no idea how the pet bugs are still here when they really don't require much more than some toggles for skills, stances to actually persist and the range for embrace to be fixed and the ability to issue commands while casting. That alone would make a big difference.
Just being able to use our fairy heal buff and regen properly would cover a large chunk of our lack of aoe healing by the pet adding a bit more and the WHM and us being able to heal an extra 20%. But due to how terribly unreliable pet control is, it's tricky to pull off correctly and can easily be screwed up. The pet not moving like an idiot to get in the range it should have will fill in the gaps for squishies to make sure they get topped up a bit faster to prevent an accidental death, with rouse, it can heal for quite a bit. On paper, it makes for a great combo and mechanic.
Gives us double shield on crit for succor and the ability to boost crit a bit more than we currently can. Or take target max hp into account for shield, and i'd be really happy with the class.
Ability to macro embrace such that the pet can do it's own thing, but if i need extra healing on a target, i can order my pet to heal whoever i'm on and cancel whatever it was doing, would put us on par for st healing with a WHM, maybe even a bit on top. -
10-09-2013, 08:33 AMsharazisspecial
They should put double shield on crit. Especially since ignorant whm keep saying succor fine because of double shields(even though it doesnt have double shields)
This wouldnt fix much though nor would it let sch heal fights they couldnt before. So it isnt needed or a solution.
The best and most balanced fix is two options.
1.Let up to 3 sch shields stack. So raids can take up to 3 sch before being penalised.
The problem with whm is that not only does it have stacking effects . it also has 300 potency medica and 650 potency cure 2. So another whm would always be more desirable over more then one sch because sch tank and aoe heal potency is halved when there is anther sch in the pt. Whereas whm potency remains same.
If se decide to balance 2 x sch by just making regen abilties unable to stack and no other changes .5 whm 1sch pts would still be optimal because sch potency still gets halved if there is already a shield on the target. so se need to let 2-3 sch stack so they have a unique niche.
2. If people say that is op then the only way to make more then 1 sch viable would be to nerf whm regen stacking then change sch succor and adloquium to heal full potency(300 and 600) if there is another shield on the target. This would also allow sch to be a raid healer instead of always being the tank healer while the whm picks up the slack. If there is no whm in the pt there is no raid healer sch need to be able to perform the role at around whm level since whm can tank heal just as well as sch. -
10-09-2013, 12:42 PMTrynil
i kind of skimed over the first page but if anything the two healers work well together white mage can easy over heal but go oom while sch can mantain a good amount of mana with good heals and do some dps if the group skill/gear allowes. to me its like priest vs. mystic in tera priest was the better healer when your group sucked and would take lots of dmg but the mystic could improve dps in better groups making the boss go down faster. if you take ak with same dps and tank and just swap heals with like ilvl im sure the sch group will finish faster with the extra dps. but in the end i think they work well together in 8 man groups.
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10-09-2013, 12:51 PMApolloGenXNumber 1 is why whms get irritated- because what a surprise it's "nerf whms"Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
Number 2- This isn't a bad idea... double your heal as long as someone ELSE has a shield on the target (and you don't leave a shield obviously). That wouldn't change solo SCH play, as it would work the same... it would only affect multiple SCH hitting each other's shields. I don't see a problem with that. Shields clearly wouldn't stack with this option, either. (But they wouldn't need to)
This is actually much different than the "convert to medica" if you hit your own shield. Solo SCH isn't the problem, it's multiples... and this would help with that and only that. -
10-09-2013, 12:54 PMsharazisspecial
Apollogenx dont u think 6 regen and 6medica2 stacking would be ridiculous.
At most it should be 3 of each effect stacking. which is what wow and gw2 limits it too.
6 medica 2 is a 600 potency regen which is like a cure2 every 3 seconds on the raid
6 medica2 + 6 regen on tanks would be a 1500 potency regen which is around 3807 hp (in my current gear relic+1 and 3 ilvl90) every 3 seconds for only 2 gcds of each whm.