Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

On another note, there's also things people can do themselves to avoid the bottom tier that apparently some of the people here deal with 95% of the time they use DF.. queue with a premade or use PF. DF is a case of 'you get what you get, make it work'.

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I'm just gonna focus on here for a moment. I understand my pool of PF for 4 man is much lower than DF for 4 man, and that can arguably skew it. However...

I've def have had more % wide bad cases in using the PF for this than the DF. One such case stuck imprinted for me (due to it being the reason I never wear my crown ever again) was a SAM I PF'd with specifically with this in mind, who, when we got into the SB dungeon (Sirensong), they were in full ironworks gear. This was before it had a Ilvl restriction (we did have 1 pug spot, so it wasn't full premade tbf.)

The entire time through this dungeon, they were told that it was okay they came in arr gear to a sb instance, because it's just a 4 man and not savage. Any attempt I made to explain the importance of keeping gear update to content was basically pushed aside, as I was just an elitist mentor. Because others gear wasn't very good either, on top of that, I managed to watch an LB2 by me (as a reminder, LB's damage is party average Ilvl) do an amazing 3% of the boss's health. I'm still pretty sure right now I could have done more dps not limit breaking.

I get that example is technically a mix, but I still used the PF regardless, and while I do have other examples of it, that's easily the big PF one that got me to stop, and stop wearing my crown. Maybe if I kept using PF it would happen less often than DF, but having to spend the time to get a party for that stuff, just to find the exact same crap honestly was going to tilt me even more. I don't think in this example's case either it's too much to put forward the importance of running content with updated gear, rather than going into a dungeon that expects 240+ in 120, where you'll get 1 shotted by any unavoidable attack.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I wonder if fear of the playerbase finding out just how underperforming they are is an unstated reason why SE refuses to put any performance feedback system in the game? I wonder if they fear the beast that they have themselves made?

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Nah, most likely it's just because most sane people would not lose their mind over something as trivial as playing DF content in 15 minutes instead of 12.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Bro, its called being tired.

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Then no need to create a thread asking:

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

What can we do about it?

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Just continue being tired and play the game the way you want and let others play the way they want. Kick if you want or leave if you must or make your own group. No need to ask for a call of action when you're tired. Other people may be tired too, and that's why some don't care to put more effort when they don't need to.

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

playing DF content in 15 minutes instead of 12.

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The HORROR! Oh the humanity!

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6gE8...3i5a/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

Nah, most likely it's just because most sane people would not lose their mind over something as trivial as playing DF content in 15 minutes instead of 12.

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Meanwhile we have people wiping on titania unable to clear because they can’t dps properly oops.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Meanwhile we have people wiping on titania unable to clear because they can’t dps properly oops.

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Those are the runs that make Titania more memorable than, say, Cape Westwind. I feel accomplished if I can clear Titania after several attempts, bonus point if people didn't leave and we finished with the original members.

Last night I had to make several attempts on O12N for my raid roulette, unfortunately one of the tank left and then we one-shot it with a new tank even though I don't think the tanking was the main problem. Still a cool experience for me even though it's an old fight I've done many times, even tanked several times.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Meanwhile we have people wiping on titania unable to clear because they can’t dps properly oops.

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And so? Why is that a cause for concern? Perhaps they're new players, perhaps they forget the Titania mechanics, perhaps they're just simply not at their best moment at the time. It's not like you can always expect to be paired up with top-notch players or those in perfect conditions every time you use DF in FFXIV anyways. It is a game played by millions, after all.

If the performance on some in the current group offends you so, just exit them; no need to make a huge fuss or immediately assume the worst of your fellow players that they are some degenerate losers who couldn't compute one plus one is two. Like I said before in this thread, please have some empathy towards your fellow players when you play the game, that is not such a hard thing to do.

Is just simply being in a group that wipe in Titania enough to lament the impossibility of FFXIV's community's ability to compete and catch up with your God-Like Skills(tm)?

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Originally Posted by linayar

Those are the runs that make Titania more memorable than, say, Cape Westwind. I feel accomplished if I can clear Titania after several attempts, bonus point if people didn't leave and we finished with the original members.

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Precisely. Why always assume the worst of people?

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

Is just simply being in a group that wipe in Titania enough to lament the impossibility of FFXIV's community's ability to compete and catch up with your God-Like Skills(tm)?

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Well it's enough to frustrate me when the reason for wiping is the gladiator (not paladin) who refuses to take ads and blames the (at the moment) new guy dps who's going through for his first time.

Which is exactly what happened to a friend of mine, who was trying to catch up back in late 5.3 to do stuff with me. Said that really put him out of the moment, as the player was pulling so fast to avoid being kicked, and then intentionally played so poorly that it was causing us to get stuck.

Which in lies the problem. Not people that are bad because they are new or returning, but players that are bad intentionally, because they refuse to play the game at all. I don't care if you didn't know to pick up specific ads your first time on titania, because that would be someone's first time on titania. I do care if you refuse to do so, knowing full well you're meant to, because you just choose to be crap.

I will state it: Playing like crap intentionally is not a playstyle, it's not an excuse, and it should be a reportable offense at any sign that it is the case.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Enabling poor play and coddling players is probably the most visible. Such as for example a mentor got dogpiled on in Siren's NN for trying to correct a player whom had not done their job quest, because they "didn't feel like doing them". Honestly this probably the most toxic aspect of this game and its community. What can we do about it? It seems to infect almost every corner of this game.

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I am not one bit surprised that the NN is so terrible. Most of the mentors I've met are bad, like bad bad! Terrible at their jobs. Let me give some examples. WHM level 49 sync uses only Cure I. No Holy, no regen, no brain but has an attitude because Hey I am a freaking mentor. Black Mage spams FIRE IV when I have pulled 10 mobs. Many mentor tanks who are pulling 3-4 mobs at a time :D. If you suggest to them how to play better they will kick you from the party for harassment! The majority of players who have become mentors are inherently bad at the game. They just meet the silly requirements to become a mentor because they have played the game for a long time. It's only natural for someone who is bad at the game to enable others to be just as bad as them.

I think that the requirements for mentoring should be way stricter. The current way to becoming a mentor is simply stupid. Get 1500 comms and 1000 dungeons/trials. I can farm comms all day long on the weekends from guildhests or low-level trials. Comms don't show if you are good at the game or not. Just use a macro to greet and say bye, play as healer/tank and the comms keep coming.