New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

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Originally Posted by Frigidchick

I really thought this was an April Fool's joke...

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so did most of us. ugh.

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Originally Posted by Denji

so did most of us. ugh.

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I had hoped it was, but deep down I knew it was reality smacking me upside the head.

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Originally Posted by Denji

so did most of us. ugh.

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I always thought it was real, at best they would just not release them, or update them.

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Originally Posted by Denji

https://i.imgflip.com/3yh46m.jpg

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You're famous now! Congratulations! :D

I was kinda hoping we would at last get the 8 already existing hrothgar hairs avaliable to the 4 heads...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...cce7c995f6.jpg

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Originally Posted by Milus

I was kinda hoping we would at last get the 8 already existing hrothgar hairs avaliable to the 4 heads...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...cce7c995f6.jpg

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this really just encapsulates the thread and all our feelings.

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Originally Posted by Milus

I was kinda hoping we would at last get the 8 already existing hrothgar hairs avaliable to the 4 heads...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...cce7c995f6.jpg

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That's what I thought you would all get after nearly 3 years, but, I guess, it must have been too much work to fit each of those (already completed) hairs to each face.

While thinking about this, I went back and looked at the quote again, and this really just irks me..

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But if every hairstyle update is going to be met with large communities of players saying, “That’s not what we want,” then perhaps we can reconsider. Though it would mean new hairstyles would be added far less frequently, perhaps we could somehow create hairstyles dedicated to those head shapes. But I think that would lower the number of hairstyles we can implement…

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I mean, we all know this handsome guy rocking this mullet that dont belong his head
https://i.redd.it/zfl5mgtgmfr41.png

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Originally Posted by Milus

I mean, we all know this handsome guy rocking this mullet that dont belong his head
https://i.redd.it/zfl5mgtgmfr41.png

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SE: "Quick, make him a Karen to hide the evidence!"

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Originally Posted by Milus

I mean, we all know this handsome guy rocking this mullet that dont belong his head
https://i.redd.it/zfl5mgtgmfr41.png

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Well, they would have to fit that hair to the other heads too if they were to release it. That's a lot of work!

By the way, I can be pretty sarcastic. When I say "that's a lot of work" or "too much work", etc.. I am being sarcastic, before anyone thinks I am trying to defend it. They had nearly three years, and the fact that they, apparently, won't do custom hairstyles for hrothgar, and on top of that saying they said from the "outset" hrothgar would get no hairstyles is just not right. They told us years ago, that hrothgar hairs would need to be custom, or had to be custom, and it's been quoted several times already in this thread. I don't think there is an excuse for what has happened to hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

I think it's fair to say most of us are willing to wait a year or two to get some really good quality hair styles.

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Not me. We waited patiently for 3 years to get chewed up scraps. Most of us already had insanely low expectations, but this was just straight up insulting. Hrothgar hairstyles should be the #1 priority on their list right now. Another set of parasol /cposes can wait.

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Originally Posted by Seafishie

Not me. We waited patiently for 3 years to get chewed up scraps. Most of us already had insanely low expectations, but this was just straight up insulting. Hrothgar hairstyles should be the #1 priority on their list right now. Another set of parasol /cposes can wait.

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Exactly 2 and a half years, for viera to get some copy pasted hairstyles first, then when your guys' patch finally comes out.. this. They just can get by a little easier on viera, since the hairs fit better, aside from their large foreheads. It's ridiculous. You all have waited long enough. I think enough is enough.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

That's what I thought you would all get after nearly 3 years, but, I guess, it must have been too much work to fit each of those (already completed) hairs to each face.

While thinking about this, I went back and looked at the quote again, and this really just irks me..

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it really pisses me off, because it feels like they forgot about hrothgar until after Endwalker and then in the last few weeks before 6.1 remembered they promised to add new hairstyles and went as fast as they could give us the same 6 hairstyles they gave to male viera, without even stopping to consider if they would even look good. Even the way Yoshi-P acted made it seem like we had given them a week to add new hairstyles when they've had 2.5 years to come up with 1-2 new ones and to fix the existing 8 to work with all 4 faces at the aesthetician.

Then he has the gall to say "Weeeellll, we COULD give you unique hairstyles, but you'll have to be patient because they take a long time." as if we havent been waiting since 2019.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

it really pisses me off, because it feels like they forgot about hrothgar until after Endwalker and then in the last few weeks before 6.1 remembered they promised to add new hairstyles and went as fast as they could give us the same 6 hairstyles they gave to male viera, without even stopping to consider if they would even look good. Even the way Yoshi-P acted made it seem like we had given them a week to add new hairstyles when they've had 2.5 years to come up with 1-2 new ones and to fix the existing 8 to work with all 4 faces at the aesthetician.

Then he has the gall to say "Weeeellll, we COULD give you unique hairstyles, but you'll have to be patient because they take a long time." as if we havent been waiting since 2019.

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It sounded to me more like them saying, "well, we can do unique hairstyles, but those take more work", "You can either like what we give you.. or wait a few more years". I really don't like the tone of the quote. I will say, they did make it sound, to me, like chopping of hrothgar ears was some sort of epiphany, that took them 2 and a half years to figure out.

Sorry, "hiding" their ears under the hair. :rolleyes:

I'm not a Hrothgar player but I would like to offer some honest feedback and possible solutions for Final Fantasy XIV team.
This is not something the developers and Yoshida-san will actually like to read about though.

There is a solution, and developers won't like it.

Obviously with the Hrothgar and Female Viera models, and notably with the Male Viera models as well, we have a problem with the skeleton and the mesh models, those are original designs, not refurbished, modified hyur models that most of other races are based of.
The Viera model for females was created back in Stormblood for the notorious fan-favourite Fran and some of her followers, with first Hrothgar also being sneaked in back then.

The only solutions I am capable of introducing is not something developers like to hear.
The solutions are as follows:
Rework from grounds up the entirety of models used in the game for Viera Male/Female to allow clipping-on to them hairstyles that can be shared from other races (not all obviously) and those changes would allow more head gear to be worn on aforementioned races. This is however something that would require a dedicated team to focus solely on this change. This means replacing ALL models for ALL Viera/Hrothgar characters in the game and replacing models for players as well. You have to understand that this is a huge undertaking because this can possibly remove characters entirely, and I mean player characters will cease to exist.
Even should the developer team responsible for this undertaking complete their work flawlessly and Yoshida-san would say, OK this will work perfectly, there's the problem with players using outdated model files which need replacing, obviously Developers cannot do that on their own, this will require players to use Fantasia before the change would take effect, and change from Viera/Hrothgar to Hyur (not other races) to preserve their character data, and then again, to go back to updated model files.

It's more core-system related than you realize. During such a change every single player with a character Viera/Hrothgar will have to obtain a Fantasia and do this change otherwise they risk losing character data.

There is also another solution of course. One that is much less destructive, but one that developers are wont to see.
Release a complete modding toolkit for Final Fantasy XIV which will then be used by modding community to create models for Viera/Hrothgar with corresponding hairstyles and hats fixed properly that the development team has no time to work on due to the pandemic and other development time schedules that Yoshida-san is maintaining to the best of his ability, which I must say, is insanely efficient as is possible at all. The Modding Community will fix this for you but without proper tools, anything they can work on, will be illegal and possibly harmful to the client. what I'm saying is, let US help YOU.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Exactly 2 and a half years, for viera to get some copy pasted hairstyles first, then when your guys' patch finally comes out.. this. They can get by a little easier on viera, since the hairs fit better, aside from their large foreheads. It's ridiculous. You all have waited long enough. I think enough is enough.

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They got them melon-sized foreheads. You can write a whole novel on Viera foreheads.
They had them Code Lyoko foreheads:

https://i.imgur.com/wYh1ue1.png

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Exactly 2 and a half years, for viera to get some copy pasted hairstyles first, then when your guys' patch finally comes out.. this. They just can get by a little easier on viera, since the hairs fit better, aside from their large foreheads. It's ridiculous. You all have waited long enough. I think enough is enough.

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It really does feel like this, doesn't it?

https://i.imgur.com/jjRWzYH.png

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Originally Posted by Seafishie

It really does feel like this, doesn't it?

https://i.imgur.com/jjRWzYH.png

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I laughed harder than I should have at this, then I died a little inside.

I feel like as long as they add some nice looking hair styles it really wouldn't matter what they did. Like, the issue could be the weird heads, right? So why not make 1 or 2 hair styles for 1 or 2 of the head shapes/faces each couple of months? Instead of trying to drop 6 hair styles that require x4 times the work because you have to adapt them to every single head shape, just increase the cadence by a lot and reduce the amount.

It would be the same approach as releasing new jobs. Each expansion people get excited because "Well, the last expansion included a tank and a ranged, so this expansion will have a healer and a melee! I'm so excited!". So each X amount of time hrothgar face 1 gets 1 unique hair style, hrothgar face 2 gets 1 unique hair style, then hrothgar face 3 - so on and so forth.

I think part of the issue here is that their idea was to give us all the currently available hairstyles for other races, so they'd start releasing hair styles in batches to play catch up like with the gender-unlocked glamours, but we don't really need that. We don't need all hairstyles, we just want new nice looking hairstyles we can change to if we feel like it.

It's okay if not every hair style is available to us. We want more options to look nice, not half-baked ports of older hairstyles. You made a unique race, and we were okay with their uniqueness, you don't have to walk back now and port to us, say, 9S's hair style, just pick a bunch of cool hair styles and start working on them. Think "What would look awesome on a massive lion/tiger beast?" and we'd be more than okay with it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Exactly 2 and a half years, for viera to get some copy pasted hairstyles first, then when your guys' patch finally comes out.. this. They just can get by a little easier on viera, since the hairs fit better, aside from their large foreheads. It's ridiculous. You all have waited long enough. I think enough is enough.

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The worst part about Viera is that they are the only ones who cannot equip the new helmets from the PVP set reward (The black and red one)
https://i.redd.it/511ga3llaxq81.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

The worst part about Viera is that they are the only ones who cannot equip the new helmets from the PVP set reward (The black and red one)
https://i.redd.it/511ga3llaxq81.jpg

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If Hrothgar can wear it, it probably looks just as ridiculous as every other helmet that completely replaces the head on them. They always look laughably small on a large body. Like, they can never put in the effort to scale the head beyond that of a hyur when it comes to Hrothgar and helmets.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

The worst part about Viera is that they are the only ones who cannot equip the new helmets from the PVP set reward (The black and red one)
https://i.redd.it/511ga3llaxq81.jpg

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I wish they would just do viera/hrothgar custom headgear in place of this sort of headgear, if their "custom" features are such an issue. Like, for example, having a crown instead of the full helmet. I'd prefer a crown on my au ra, if I wanted that set, for that matter. Of course, that would require them putting in more work, and modelling an alternative. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Frigidchick

I really thought this was an April Fool's joke...

A lot of time has passed for that.... hair update
for Cat Daddies.

I like Mr. Yoshi P and the FFXIV team, but there are way too
many Hrothgar hair mods to accept "Hrothgar heads are
different" as an excuse.

https://i.imgur.com/Zk9FiOe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CFUYUii.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UDZ24BL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a8Pb7eG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Li2AbtV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5NPZtYZ.jpg

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I mean... some of those aren't perfect, like the shapes roughly cutting through the hair... But I don't think it looks bad to the point that togglng the ears off make it superior.

At best, the clipping, when it happens in those examples, are on par with hair clipping on the collar of shirts or neck pieces.

They'd make everyone happy if they allowed clipping but made those hairs work like normal. But oops, perfectionism kills creativity.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I mean... some of those aren't perfect, like the shapes roughly cutting through the hair... But I don't think it looks bad to the point that togglng the ears off make it superior.

At best, the clipping, when it happens in those examples, are on par with hair clipping on the collar of shirts or neck pieces.

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I am baffled by what they consider acceptable and unacceptable. Miqo'te ears don't look that great in a lot of hairstyles, and they let those pass.

Something I want to add to this thread: The excuse that the code is hard to work with because of present 1.0 spaghetti code is only really an acceptable press response to paying customers for so long. There have so far been four gigantic expansions to an already large base game, with planning for a fifth, so maybe more time should be spent on basic aspects of the engine even if it means the next expansion being less lengthy?

I’m a full-time programmer, and I know how hard it can be to read through and work with awkwardly written legacy code, but I also know that it being tricky doesn’t always work as an excuse, and sensible companies that already make a lot of money in profits will often bring in more people if there really is something that there are insufficient resources for. Hard and impossible are also different things.

If developers are having issues figuring out how to add ears to one of their already less-supported races, then could Square Enix -please- hire some modders like with how Sega hired fan coders to make the hugely successful Sonic Mania, or do they have too much pride to even consider doing that? And yes, I’m aware that there’s additional work that has to be done beyond what modders do, like far more testing and making sure that the overall build doesn’t break, but why refuse to reach out to them altogether?

The latest response feels like it’s trying to guilt me into being happier with my character’s race consistently having less customization option than the other characters, or else risk an even slower time than the several -years- that already passed by, and that makes me sad. I am grateful that more content creators are raising increased attention to this at least.

Also, please stop using clipping as an excuse to not update the Hrothgar further; there are already tons of clothes across the game’s life with clipping, and there are already sometimes clipping issues with hair or horns with other races, so if you’re not going to be consistent with your opposition to clipping, then it feels like a disingenuous excuse to downplay concerns of Hrothgar players yet again…

And one last thing: Why is feedback in relation to missing ears only being asked for -now- after lots of technical work has already been done? There was an unfair assumption made that most players wouldn’t care about missing ears, and nobody thought to survey the community or gather more feedback before starting?

Career Hrothgar tossing in my two gil for feedback.

I always considered Hrothgar a niche race. It was a commitment to a very specific character. That was fine to me.

I've only ever wanted to not feel like the "Limited Job" of race choice. Which come down to three steps for me.

1. The ability to change my hairstyle, even if it was only tied to the face choice without having to buy a fantasia. (This update has done this.)
2. Make the eight unique hairstyles available on all faces. If other race's hairstyles aren't possible at least let us use all of our unique hairstyles regardless of face choice.
3. Female Hrothgar (Which was announced, but I'd like the first two fixed before we add another layer to the problem!)
Bonus: Give us a new style once in a while. Even at the rate of once an expansion.

I just want a solid baseline quality for the race that resembles the others. If it's meant to be the special race that does things differently and doesn't get other race's options that's fine. Just make it look like it's a finished product. Right now, this race feels like it's still in a beta state. That's the worst part of being a Hrothgar to me feeling like my character choice was an afterthought to the Viera.

http://i.imgur.com/lwHgZe9.jpeg

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Originally Posted by BrunoKazuki

http://i.imgur.com/lwHgZe9.jpeg

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this belongs in a museum.

https://i.imgur.com/ttbYhjU.png

Did some quick edit on the "xenomorph bowl cut" hairstyle. It's like the team responsible thought the hrothgar hairline is tied to the hunch and decided to just stretch the hair model instead of adapting it, what is kinda weird due the neck and back of the head is similar to all other races. It feels that the art team is struggling not only with the ears but with the hunch as well.

If the hunch is giving more trouble for new customization options, get rid of it. FFX's Ronso Race doesn't have a hunch, this is a western MMO thing for beast and monster looking races like WoW Tauren and GW2 Charr - and most players who play with the such races hate it.

Now for the feedback, since the dev team are asking: first and foremost, I love the patch 6.1, it's being so much fun! It really saddens me how it got tainted by the state of the new hrothgar hairstyles and the removal of SAM's kaiten ability. I can't say anything about SAM issues due not being my main job ingame, but as a hrothgar player I hope to give some insight to you guys at the dev team.

(btw english isn't my main language so sorry for any mispelling)

- Before anything: halt any kind of new hairstyle development to all other races till at least you guys manage to unlock all base hrothgar hairstyles to all the faces.

- Halt the current development of Female Hrothgar till you manage to find a way to fix the issue to add new hairstyles and headgear for both hrothgar and vieras. Adding a new model will only stack more problems if the same decisions are being made to the female model.

- The hairstyles chosen for this first batch were horrible, they don't look good on hrothgar - even if you guys managed to implement with the ears people would still complain a lot to be honest. And the fact the only good one is locked behind a paywall at the mogstation, it left a really bad taste on most people's mouth. Would be better if we had a small survey asking what kind of the current hairstyles available ingame people want to hrothgar, would be way better if you tried something like "we can only do 5 for now, what are the ones you players want the most?" than just adapt the same hairstyles viera got.

- Try add new exclusive hairstyles for hrothgar, here on the forums since the reveal of the hairstyles several people even designed really good ones!

- If the ears are being a problem due weird clipping on some hairstyles, let it clip for now and work in a more long term better fix aesthetic and technical wise for 7.0.

- Get hid of the hunch, it'll make the life for you devs way easier for everything related to hairstyles, headgear and even mitigate clipping, giving way more freedom and options to work with.

- And for last: thanks for finally make hrothgar be able to change hairstyles without the need of spending real money on fantasia. It's a small step forward for sure, but is a step forward to the right direction.

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Originally Posted by BrunoKazuki

http://i.imgur.com/lwHgZe9.jpeg

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No no, remember, looks like that because the ears are hidden inside the hair.

https://i.imgur.com/mBEj8QC.png

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Originally Posted by Karowolus

This was posted in a discord I'm in.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...22/unknown.png

We were told the ears are part of the hair...

No they aren't. I don't see any ears.

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Its sad to see the modding community can do a better job at giving us hair options than square has, and not to mention HATS i cant wear any god damned hats either in the game, like 90% of my glams are hatless cause none work, but if you look online, you can find mods that clearly have hats working on hrothgar, its not that it cant be done, its that they dont care bout hrothgars, never have , and i doubt they will by the looks of it. i just want them to give a little tinyest bit of a shit, theyre talking about us getting less hairstyles if they worked on hrothgar hair, idk cant get any less than 0 for the majority of it, absolutely appalling, i dont honestly think theyll see this or care but hey atleast i tossed in my 2 cents

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen the ears temporarily remaining when switching to the new hairstyles at the aesthetician? While this could very much be due to some lag on my end, I've noticed that when switching between the new hairstyles (primarily the Pulse hairstyle), and the original ones, the ears will sometimes momentarily remain before disappearing. It is only for a split second when it happens, and it happens rarely, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen it occur as well?

After I saw it happen for the first time, I tried to get it to appear again and was able to get a picture of what it looked like with the Pulse hairstyle (my apologies for the poor image quality). I've got to say, regardless of what is causing this error, seeing in-game what the Pulse hairstyle looks like with ears makes me wish that the ears were actually on these new hairstyles. The headpiece just looks so much better, in my opinion.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...366.1638422216

Oh yeah it happened to me last time too. And if you change to the preview of another hairstyle you can see in a frame how there is a hole where the ear should be.

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Originally Posted by Budimir

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen the ears temporarily remaining when switching to the new hairstyles at the aesthetician? While this could very much be due to some lag on my end, I've noticed that when switching between the new hairstyles (primarily the Pulse hairstyle), and the original ones, the ears will sometimes momentarily remain before disappearing. It is only for a split second when it happens, and it happens rarely, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen it occur as well?

After I saw it happen for the first time, I tried to get it to appear again and was able to get a picture of what it looked like with the Pulse hairstyle (my apologies for the poor image quality). I've got to say, regardless of what is causing this error, seeing in-game what the Pulse hairstyle looks like with ears makes me wish that the ears were actually on these new hairstyles. The headpiece just looks so much better, in my opinion.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...366.1638422216

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that looks FANTASTIC compared to the junk we got! I really hope they take this into account, and recreate the bug, cause apparently the bug can do what they cannot

So it shows that was possible to keep them on in the first place.

Malicious compliance at best.

Don't quite get why they opted to go into the same trap as WoW with tauren/worgen where they insist on giving the races hunchbacks or manes causing hunchbacks.

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Originally Posted by Retrisar

So it shows that was possible to keep them on in the first place.

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Oh the ear meshes are definitely still there, they're just hidden.

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Originally Posted by Budimir

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen the ears temporarily remaining when switching to the new hairstyles at the aesthetician? While this could very much be due to some lag on my end, I've noticed that when switching between the new hairstyles (primarily the Pulse hairstyle), and the original ones, the ears will sometimes momentarily remain before disappearing. It is only for a split second when it happens, and it happens rarely, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen it occur as well?

After I saw it happen for the first time, I tried to get it to appear again and was able to get a picture of what it looked like with the Pulse hairstyle (my apologies for the poor image quality). I've got to say, regardless of what is causing this error, seeing in-game what the Pulse hairstyle looks like with ears makes me wish that the ears were actually on these new hairstyles. The headpiece just looks so much better, in my opinion.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...366.1638422216

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Nah, it's not lag. Happened to me and to people I know. It happens way too often so it must be a bug on their end. Shows again that all of this was rushed and done at the last minute.