Black Mage

I think you can hit 2200 spellspeed without compromising your stats too hard now, which will go a fair way into a high sustained output in most scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I think you can hit 2200 spellspeed without compromising your stats too hard now, which will go a fair way into a high sustained output in most scenarios.

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From Ariyala, I think that if you overdo your Spell Speed gear and get literally everything with spell speed and make up for the lack of Direct Hit with Materia, you get like

2152 SpS, 1347 Direct Hit, 1350 Crit, and 1043 Determination.

Not sure how much this'd look for actual practice, but it's at least good for stability in rotation.

So we should be looking towards 2200 spell speed then focusing on other stats? Byakko's weapon gives spell speed which is nice. The belt and I think 3 accessories for the prototypes give spell speed the body is a bit questionable the crafted version gives spell speed so does the prototype AND the new totem body piece gives it. So just getting the totem body next week while getting the prototype legs for more spellspeed.

Spellspeed is variable and gets much better the more you get / can make use of it (Spellspeed does nothing in forced downtime scenarios for example, where an extra crit or DHit before it happens pulls ahead). 10% spellspeed is actually +11% dps (You get 11 spells in the time it takes 10), 25% spellspeed is +33% dps, 50% is +100%, etc, not factoring in Ice downtime of course. The extreme amounts however are currently unattainable, but it's nice to dream.

The general consensus now that DHit is a thing is "As much as what makes you comfortable."

I am sitting atm with 2158without food, and I have heard from other BLMs on my server to also try get DET on my gear.
And when I went from about 1600Crit, 1300DH and 800DET and changed it to a balanced 1250 CRIT/DH/DET, I am seeing bigger hits and hear that my DPS has become better.

I also do like that now if i have a Firestarter at the end of my MP, I can save the Firestarter and do my Foul/T3/B4 then Transpose and use F3 :)
I do love being able to AM and BTL across the battlefield and preposition my Leylines to dodge aoes like on Byakko where we have to stack on him, split for the lane aoe and stack again :)

pre savage gear, we often have more SS..., but it drops later on with savage and upgraded gear...,

but if Ariyala BIS is about 2150 SS, that would be great!

I think on reddit there was a configuration with 2.4k and able to reach 2518 but it lead to 1.3k and 750 dhit if I remember it well

pre 4.2 patch you could go over 2-2.1k, but it wasnt ideal, .could get foul build up issues.. .(ideal was around 1.85-2k)

but if 2.1-2.4 is possible in patch 4.2 and still valid for the roations (foul build up, mana ticks), it would be great!

SS can really make blm feel great again (and possibly give it the numbers it deserves ... , unless it means other classes gettig 2.5k crit and making our SS dps increase invalid again -.-'..)

but eitherway, over 2-2.1k already feels great from the fluidity feeling.., like this is how blm was always ment to feel like

but probably like in the past, should never let one stat drop too much, if you yry to push others (except maybe determination,... but crti and d-hit should probably stay in some kind of balance, like Altera and Remedi noted...; hope we can atain such a balance with high SS with savage / upgraded gear too)

Is crit better than direct hit on blm? Honestly could care less about savage till weekly restrictions are removed so I don't really focus on those.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

So we should be looking towards 2200 spell speed then focusing on other stats? Byakko's weapon gives spell speed which is nice. The belt and I think 3 accessories for the prototypes give spell speed the body is a bit questionable the crafted version gives spell speed so does the prototype AND the new totem body piece gives it. So just getting the totem body next week while getting the prototype legs for more spellspeed.

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It depends on your preference. Right now we don't have a simulator to say for sure, and it also depends heavily on the fight (more breaks means spellspeed isn't as useful).

Laqi did some testing and he's found the following gearsets giving the highest damage:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/14V9D and http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/14XPW

But again, you shouldn't worry about BiS when you are progressing. Take whatever pieces give you an ilevel gain and then worry about BiS when you have everything on farm.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Is crit better than direct hit on blm? Honestly could care less about savage till weekly restrictions are removed so I don't really focus on those.

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From what I know, I think DH has a better payout on BLM due to it having more consistency, but Crit might be better due to it being both a damage buff to crits and a stat that increases the chance of actually critting.

Generally speaking, Blam and Sam fill the same role and while bringing one of them is fine, you would want to avoid having both.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Generally speaking, Blam and Sam fill the same role and while bringing one of them is fine, you would want to avoid having both.

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Pretty much this. My raid group (which has been together since early 3.0 give or take a tank) has been running BLM and SAM (He was a NIN in 3.0) since 4.0 started and you absolutely feel the loss of raid dps. It's undeniable really- but we just play what we enjoy and clear content.

sam should fill nin or melee roll lol...

but sam, as non- meta class, should know / fell us fellow " no utility " dps, that have hard times in PFs..

Yes, but they both are the non-party buff cannon class. You really don't want more than one, especially since they aren't really cannon-ing high enough to be worth losing the other tools.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Yes, but they both are the non-party buff cannon class. You really don't want more than one, especially since they aren't really cannon-ing high enough to be worth losing the other tools.

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Yeah losing the other raid tools really shows. As I said its undeniable that running one (let alone both) is a major raid dps loss.

As someone who almost exclusive uses Black Mage in previous FF games (at least, where bards aren't available) I always figured Black Mage would be a great place to start. It was the first job I ever levelled to 50 way back in 1.X, but since then my enjoyment of the job has went down as the game progressed. However, in its current state, I find it difficult to play Black Mage at all. The spells animations aren't very exciting for an occult mage supposedly capable of pure devastation. The casting animations make it seem like even my character himself is bored of it, half-heartedly pointing a staff at the enemy every few seconds to create a slightly bigger ball of fire than the one you've had for the past two years.
In terms of actual gameplay it feels cumbersome compared to most other dps jobs. For the effort it takes to perform adequately as a Black Mage, I could be running around like a headless chicken on Bard and still perform similarly whilst bringing much sought after utility.

Personally I feel that Black Mage suffers from the same identity problem many other jobs face. The job is initially designed with the traditional Black Mage in mind; utilizing the elements to devastate foes. In practice, 1.X Black Mage is just a human taser that shoots lightning at everything. Obviously this doesn't match Black Mage's identity (only one element?!), so we get 2.0 Black Mage. Now you can use two whole elements! Wow! The job now tries to build upon the 'glass cannon' archetype, yet 'class archetypes' can't exist because of balance (Summoner and Black Mage must always have the same HP and Defense values at identical ilvls), so the 'glass cannon' aspect of Black Mage's identity is lost. Instead, it's replaced by the 'stationary turret' identity, like XIV's answer to the glass cannon.
This exacerbates the problem as Black Mages are thus unable to deal their full damage without having to wrestle with mobility, casting times, Astral Fire/Umbral Ice, Enochian, Polyglot, standing in Ley Lines, etc. So the job that's now intended to be high damage but vulnerable can't utilize its superior damage due to this vulnerability, and so the traditional 'Black Mage' identity goes down the drain as you spend more time trying to minimize the impact of having to move than considering which spells to use or why.

Come 4.0, and while many quality of life issues have been addressed (Astral/Umbral timer increase, Between the Lines, Umbral Hearts) the key identity issue is still not addressed. Black Mage remains as a 'glass cannon' with no ammunition. It's affected by certain mechanics more than any other job, especially compared to it's ranged dps competitors Bard and Machinist, who are notorious for being completely unaffected by mobility in battle. Additionally, the player community has developed a 'meta' based around job synergy and utility, the two things that the 'glass cannon' must sacrifice for their identity. In a game where increasing the dps of your party members is just as important as increasing your own, there's going to be very little space in parties to accomodate what Black Mage has become.

BLM has a good and solid identity. SE just refuses to make it work on some of the game's system like mana ticks among other things. On top of that their identity is straight not likeed by the players when they have the option to play as a BLM or with one in their team. But that's a whole other topic.

Came across a PF group that only allowed BLMs and I joined and had a really fun time doing old Primal EXes xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kckmyt4pqJA&t=5s

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Originally Posted by Altera

Came across a PF group that only allowed BLMs and I joined and had a really fun time doing old Primal EXes xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kckmyt4pqJA&t=5s

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To be quite honest, I do kind of want there to be reasons to be bring duplicate jobs. Take a hit to LB generation and toolkit diversity but get job specific bonuses to certain mechanics.

Dragon Eye grants 10% to allied Dragoons
Brotherhood generates Chakra for all monks
Black Mages benefit from other leylines
Summoners Enkindle all Egis within range
Machinists provide each other Ammo
Red Mage Embolden adds duration before the Stacks diminish

Stuff like that

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

To be quite honest, I do kind of want there to be reasons to be bring duplicate jobs. Take a hit to LB generation and toolkit diversity but get job specific bonuses to certain mechanics.

Dragon Eye grants 10% to allied Dragoons
Brotherhood generates Chakra for all monks
Black Mages benefit from other leylines
Summoners Enkindle all Egis within range
Machinists provide each other Ammo
Red Mage Embolden adds duration before the Stacks diminish

Stuff like that

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Monk already has that with one being able to skip Dragon Kick. Its really not a good idea.

Thanks for the advice started blm near when sophia was released I know too much spell speed is detrimental and was curious which stats as of now best benefit blm.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Thanks for the advice started blm near when sophia was released I know too much spell speed is detrimental and was curious which stats as of now best benefit blm.

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It really isn't the case. Spellspeed is very good on BLM

No such thing as too much spell speed or it be detrimental on blm, never has been actually
Determination is a stat that was good back in 2.X but in SB is not very good (despite SE always adding it to the gear or weapons...)
Crit is good but i think Spell Speed + Direct Hit and some Crit would be best

We are at the point where crit scaling overtakes Direct hit though

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Originally Posted by Connor

Obviously this doesn't match Black Mage's identity (only one element?!), so we get 2.0 Black Mage. Now you can use two whole elements! Wow!

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Uhhhh... you probably were playing Black Mage wrong back in 2.0, because you needed Thunder spells as well as your Blizzard and Fire spells to do anything near competent damage. I mean, a dot that could trigger "free" 300-ish potency GCDs on a 5% chance per tick? Granted, this was before the days of Heavensward where you could force procs, but... wow. You had to be doing something wrong to even ignore a DoT.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

BLM has a good and solid identity. SE just refuses to make it work on some of the game's system like mana ticks among other things. On top of that their identity is straight not likeed by the players when they have the option to play as a BLM or with one in their team. But that's a whole other topic.

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Yeah, basically that's the problem with BLM. There's also some issue with the actual skills themselves (I personally think that Fire IV shouldn't have kept its above GCD cast time, but I'm weird, I think) and the playerbase has an issue regarding utility vs. pure damage. I think part of the problem is that the utility classes may hit a bit too hard, but again, I'm weird.

How do you guys handle TC procs in low movement fights? Is it better to hold it to refresh DoT (and avoid casting non-procced one) or just throw it as soon as it gets more potency than F4 (1 tick?)?

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Originally Posted by Terkhev

How do you guys handle TC procs in low movement fights? Is it better to hold it to refresh DoT (and avoid casting non-procced one) or just throw it as soon as it gets more potency than F4 (1 tick?)?

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I tend to hold it using these priorities:

1) Until needed for movement or an OGCD usage
2) Until there's an add and I can fit it into my rotation without losing a F4 in the short term
3) Until the thundercloud dot on the boss dies
4) Until I can replace a hardcast thunder 3 in my Umbral Ice phase.

I try not to use thundercloud for "no reason" because F4 is stronger - unless I know i'm going to finish the phase/fight in Umbral Ice

So being a pretty casual raider (6 hours a week) odds are I wont be downing God Kefka anytime soon- Should I buy the tome chest? Its spellspeed/determ, I'm not sure where we stand with determ atm

Or better to get the crafted one?

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

So being a pretty casual raider (6 hours a week) odds are I wont be downing God Kefka anytime soon- Should I buy the tome chest? Its spellspeed/determ, I'm not sure where we stand with determ atm

Or better to get the crafted one?

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Save tomes for the Weapon if you are able to down o6s

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Save tomes for the Weapon if you are able to down o6s

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Ah good call. Yeah I just cleared O6S with my static tonight =D

Chest might be better if you have 4.1 chest but haven't got ilvl 350 crafted one yet because weapons are +5 ilvl (355 Byakko -> 360 Tome) but chest is +20 ilvl which might yield more damage 340 -> 360. Didn't actually calculate Math tho.

The only time you should go for the chest before the weapon is if you feel you are going to kill o8s in the near future, because our o8s weapon has the highest WD.

Harold is correct Weapon>Chest and so on but
myself i will most likely get the Sigmascape Normal chest piece over the tome one for now and the weapon does not even have spell speed does it? I may be getting mixed up with the Primal weapon.
Also i went with crafted weapon for my Red Mage and not sure yet for blm. (Yes i know weapon dmg is better on tome weapon but i question SE for it's secondary stats in SB for weapons..)
And i will never get housing it seems so may as well spend my gil somewhere :/

It doesn't have spell speed but the tome weapon has 1 more weapon damage so spellspeed or not I can only assume its better?

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

It doesn't have spell speed but the tome weapon has 1 more weapon damage so spellspeed or not I can only assume its better?

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Weapon Damage > All