How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

Planing on doing Sophia EX this weekend. Can anyone tell me what is the hit cap for it?

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Originally Posted by Vit4lic

Planing on doing Sophia EX this weekend. Can anyone tell me what is the hit cap for it?

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If you can zone in, you probably have enough accuracy for it lol. There is no DPS check for this fight.

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Originally Posted by Daweism

If you can zone in, you probably have enough accuracy for it lol. There is no DPS check for this fight.

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There is a DPS check.

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Originally Posted by TunaBass

Can't you switch out the det V with Acc V on head and replace the acc V with Crit V on hands?
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VPC3

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Baked Pira Pira is old news now. Priestly Omlette is the new (expensive) hotness. It's a literal upgrade to Baked Pira Pira:
Crit 42 (53 HQ)
Vit 44 (55 HQ)
Acc 19 (24 HQ)

Oh hey, some said this already, disregard then

Likewise, Draconian potions are going to become super affordable, as there's now two stronger variant

EDIT: To make this not a complete waste of a post, are there any recommendations for progression build involving the tome weapon?

Don Dervy sends his regards

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VU80

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

Don Dervy sends his regards

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VU80

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something odd at the bottom. looks like both steamed staff and baked pira pira were used as the base.

I hate that creator spear so much.

update on my gear atm

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/5733472/

Anyone have words about the hp req for a11s-a12s?

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

Don Dervy sends his regards

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VU80

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Thanks for sharing this. I noticed that upgrading from pipira to omelette is a very minor gain at this point, other than the extra hp.

For progressing in a12s I guess we can just swap the weapon, gloves and necklace to their tomestone counterparts.

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

update on my gear atm

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/5733472/

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Nice !

Got a question tho. From the first post, we can read :

"Recommended Skill Speed Values:
Maximum : 652
Minimum : 590"

Is it ok to have such a high SS ? 762 is not messing up your rota ?

@BalmungAzuresky,

Ty! and yes it is messing up my rotation a bit. So I hope when I get savage gear and stuff it gets balanced out, now I'm just altering my rotation just a tiny bit.

I hope to the twelve the final relic is 275. That Creator spear is vomit inducing. It's actually so far off base that i think I'm going to avoid melding until it's final power level is revealed. I can see that the melds are likely to be completely different with it as the base arm.

Actually, is there a way to theorycraft stats? Like if it's know what the maximum crit and det are for a 275 weapon, can stats be calculated with those values?

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

You need to make some sort of a simulator, I don't know if there's any available publicly and up to date though. But for this patch I don't think we know the stat weights yet, so just be patient and wait for lord Dervy to bestow us the numbers. :p

As for melds etc, just meld depending on your current gear, if you're not doing savage early you'll at most end up with tomestone and prototype gears which will be replaced by their upgraded and savage counterparts. I usually use tier iv mats for these transition gears.

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Oh I'm already knee deep into savage, that's why I'm asking =P I have no problem doing the bold though

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

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You need to make some sort of a simulator, I don't know if there's any available publicly and up to date though. But for this patch I don't think we know the stat weights yet, so just be patient and wait for lord Dervy to bestow us the numbers. :p

As for melds etc, just meld depending on your current gear, if you're not doing savage early you'll at most end up with tomestone and prototype gears which will be replaced by their upgraded and savage counterparts. I usually use tier iv mats for these transition gears.

In Dervy we trust ;-;

yoyo goons, anyone got a min/maxing guide for a9s? Got 1956 dps on refurbisher on my clear, but ofc I want to become better.

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

yoyo goons, anyone got a min/maxing guide for a9s? Got 1956 dps on refurbisher on my clear, but ofc I want to become better.

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Spam aoe on adds, ask for goad, tp song, promotion.

I did 2,288 with that gear:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/W5JT
And I don't aoe a single time nor delay my dragonfire dive.
I just use my geirskogul (if there's adds when I use it usually), too lazy to delay.

I don't think your getting the best out of your offensiv timers.
And your skillspeed is a mess xD
With 600 it's already hard to manage tp, I can't imagine with 760.

It may also depend of your team composition and the duration.


EDIT:
Ok so I checked on FFlogs.
I took my first down wich was 2086dps and almost the same duration as your.

Link:
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/compa...pe=damage-done
Mine is in french but you should recognize with the icons.

I have more secondary stats but you have 1 more weapon dmg with the sophia weapon so it's kinda equal I guess.

I have to tell you that your skillspeed is puting you in trouble.
With that SS you have like 0.6gcd less than me.
Wich mean you should have done more spells than me. And also more auto-attacks since SS increase attack speed I guess.

I'm triggered by the fact that you had the balance 99% of the time, you should really do more with that.

About the timers, it looks like your fine with your timers (PoV would help).
I can't really see if your doing two geirskogul per blood for blood, but if your not you should, that's free extra dps, even more if it happens when there's adds.

Next, you forgot to use your leg sweep as soon as it's up, this is a big loss of dps.

Basically:
With so much skillspeed your rotation is broken, you refresh DoTs too soon and without a ninja to back you up you end up out of tp wich explain the extra spells missing.
With that you may be moving too much or smth wich would explain the auto-attacks missing.

Now I can't really manage to find what's left but it can depend of alot of things such as the food you're using, the potion, luck on crits etc...
More parse to compare would help.

Again I can't clearly see what you do so I can't tell if there's errors in your rotation over the whole fight, like if you miss some refresh or anything.
If you could record a PoV it would be so much easier to see what's wrong.

At least I highlighted some points that you can improve.
I did my best while I writed this at 8am and without sleeping.

Hope it was clear enough with my limited english and that it will help you improving.

@Shamox, thanks so much clears up quite a lot. I'm using the new crit food (4 star), and max pots. And yeah my skill speed is beyond fucked, need to get different gear soon to even it out. I'm a dragoon who snorted too much cocaine atm. There are times where I have to wait 3-4 seconds on my botd/ir double weave because my rotation is so weird now lol. Imagine if I went with skillspeed melds lol, that would be horrible

Well you could take the Shire Pathfinder's Armor and the Prototype Alexandrian Belt of Maiming to lose 136 skillspeed.
Both are top tier so it would be ok.

And yeah, I played with 777SS once, the rotation is totally broken.

Now Imagine with this:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VZ71

shit lol, 1302 ss. That's like trying to pilot an f35 at top speed

Is all that Skill Speed worth it? I mean, how can you even manage the TP in long fights?

Definitely not worth it.

I'm trying to gear up my dragoon, it will be my first character with end game gear and my first time trying to get into the harder dungeons, so I would like some advice.

1. Can someone recommend me what mix of alexandrian/augmented shire armor is best when I have all ilvl 250 crafted slaying jewelry? I am willing to have multiple pieces so that I can be optimized for dungeons that don't have high accuracy requirements and for those with high accuracy requirements.
2. I keep seeing people say the ideal skillspeed is ~650, but it seems like many people are basing this on the assumption that you will be able to constantly attack the same mob for 30+ seconds in a row. What I have seen in fights is that this is almost never going to happen. If we assume that you will very often have to break away from the boss to deal with mechanics such as dodging aoes, attacking different things, boss disappearing/becoming invulnerable, etc., then what would be the safest stats to raise, critical rate?
3. What do people think about vitality 5 in all of the five jewelry pieces? I am not a hardcore gamer, I make mistakes and get killed regularly. I don't know how this game values offensive stats vs. defensive stats, but what I have seen in a lot of other games is that defensive stats are increased quite higher than offensive stats per point in order to incentivize people not to make glass cannons. I have played tanky dps classes in some games, and found that I could often output more dps than glass dps of similar skill due to being able to take more risks, sitting in damage to keep dps'ing, and dying less. If this game makes defensive stats more powerful I may remeld my jewelry for vitality.
4. What are the accuracy requirements to not miss or almost never miss for dungeons like Xephatol, gubal library hard, etc.? I will probably be mostly doing easier dungeons like these so will probably have some pieces switched out for lower accuracy.

>Glass Cannon Main. Dungeons is probably like... 600 frontal or less. I just base my accuracy off of the final raid fight and work with that. Though mine is currently gross because I got drops from A9 and 10S. I'm at like... 780 accuracy

Does anybody else feel like drg is abit... well weaker this patch? I know its early in the patch and theŕe could be many factors involved, gear, skill level, balance card etc but i feel as if more ninjas are much closer to drg in terms of deeps and monk is completely running away with it. Not complaining, its just the feeling im getting right now.

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Originally Posted by jack891

Does anybody else feel like drg is abit... well weaker this patch? I know its early in the patch and theŕe could be many factors involved, gear, skill level, balance card etc but i feel as if more ninjas are much closer to drg in terms of deeps and monk is completely running away with it. Not complaining, its just the feeling im getting right now.

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I agree with that to some extent and I think the gap between NIN and DRG this patch is smaller than what it was in the past, I think it is mainly due to two reasons:

1) the DRG gear doesn't have very good substats. Both the crafted ilvl 250 gear and the ilvl270 best-in-slot one are way weaker than they were the previous patches, you can barely break 1000 critical hit rate on them, if at all, and it's a pretty noticeable disadvantage when other classes such as NIN have much more favorable best-in-slots.

2) some of the later Savage fights such as A11S and A12S are pretty tough on DRGs for Blood of the Dragon management when learning them, due to the amount of movement required and to the frequent disconnections from the boss. On the other hand, NINs and MNKs have an easier time since Huton is simpler to keep up and Form Shift is really helpful when disengaging from the boss to keep up Greased Lightning.

Keep in mind that this second disadvantage is only temporal, since it's only a matter of time before skilled DRGs will be able to learn the new fights properly. It will just take them a bit longer compared to NINs and MNKs.

When me and Dervy were comparing the simulated DPS between NIN and DRG in BiS, the result showed NIN being roughly 20 DPS ahead. So DRG got shafted so hard it was enough for the on dummy less DPS NIN to actually surpass them.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

When me and Dervy were comparing the simulated DPS between NIN and DRG in BiS, the result showed NIN being roughly 20 DPS ahead. So DRG got shafted so hard it was enough for the on dummy less DPS NIN to actually surpass them.

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Wow does that include a War bot keeping the slashing debuff up or would it be even greater then?

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Originally Posted by Krindor

When me and Dervy were comparing the simulated DPS between NIN and DRG in BiS, the result showed NIN being roughly 20 DPS ahead. So DRG got shafted so hard it was enough for the on dummy less DPS NIN to actually surpass them.

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O wow, is there an obvious reason for it? Is it due to the low amount of crit on drg bis and how crit scales off of itself?

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Originally Posted by jack891

O wow, is there an obvious reason for it? Is it due to the low amount of crit on drg bis and how crit scales off of itself?

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Yes, it's crit. The NIN BiS is 1366 crit I compared to the 972 of DRG. Considering at that amount, crit is valued close to 50% more than Det, so say DRG has 972/943, with det as the base. We get 972*1.45 + 943 = 2352.4, in comparison for Nin we get 1366*1.5 + 689 = 2738. With this we get a difference of 385.6 det or 77.12 STR, then applying a SS difference of 150 that's 25.5 STR, so 51.62 STR. That's almost the main stats on an accessory!. To be noted is that this isn't completely accurate as there's more to it, but it is accurate enough to show what is going on.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Wow does that include a War bot keeping the slashing debuff up or would it be even greater then?

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No it's only tested using their own abilities, so the sim needs to reapply slashing debbuff, with a War putting it up the difference would be greater.

Krindor, if hypothetically the final step in anima weapon will be i275, how much better would the simulated dps of the BiS build be compared to what we currently have?

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Krindor, if hypothetically the final step in anima weapon will be i275, how much better would the simulated dps of the BiS build be compared to what we currently have?

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I only have a nin and mnk sim, Dervy is the one with a drg sim so I can't get a certain number but it should put DRG at around the same as NIN.

Edit: Had a quick chat with Dervy, a crit det 275 relic is going to increase the DPS by 1.1% or roughly 28 DPS which puts it slightly ahead of NIN.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

I only have a nin and mnk sim, Dervy is the one with a drg sim so I can't get a certain number but it should put DRG at around the same as NIN.

Edit: Had a quick chat with Dervy, a crit det 275 relic is going to increase the DPS by 1.1% or roughly 28 DPS which puts it slightly ahead of NIN.

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Has Dervy by chance thrown together a BiS based around the scripture weapon? Reason being it would be the closest thing to a full-crit/det 275 relic(if this actually happens down the line) at the moment and I'm wondering if the drop in SS from the weapon forcing the rest of the gear to change would actually result in a higher weight. I didn't get to mess with the gear sets too extensively yet but it seems like it might actually be more prudent in this case to adjust the relic to the minimum required SS and then max Crit followed by remaining points into Det. Just to make sure the minimum accuracy and SS values are still met.

Thoughts?

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VZ9L

Thanks Krindor. I guess even with a crit/det weapon we still have rather low crit compared to nin/mnk.

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Originally Posted by Shinji2787

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Dervy himself said in reddit that i270 weap is around 9-10 str's worth less than the i275 weap, so it won't be "BiS" if you build a set around it. If you meant you want to prepare this set just in case the relic can reach i275, then you simply change Dervy's BiS set by replacing the savage necklace and gloves (which have accu/det) with their tomestone counterparts (which have accu/sks), effectively making up for the loss of sks from dropping the savage spear. Of course you need to move around some melds.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

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Yea, the scripture weapon couldn't be BiS I know that. But cool, simpler gear swaps than I thought it would be. Thanks.

I have the savage gloves now, ariyala says it is bis (without food buff), with food buff script gloves are bis. What do I follow?

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Thanks Krindor. I guess even with a crit/det weapon we still have rather low crit compared to nin/mnk.



Dervy himself said in reddit that i270 weap is around 9-10 str's worth less than the i275 weap, so it won't be "BiS" if you build a set around it. If you meant you want to prepare this set just in case the relic can reach i275, then you simply change Dervy's BiS set by replacing the savage necklace and gloves (which have accu/det) with their tomestone counterparts (which have accu/sks), effectively making up for the loss of sks from dropping the savage spear. Of course you need to move around some melds.

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So basically this, give or take a few points for the str of the weapon, or should melds still be based on the Creator spear

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/WBNT

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/WBPA
More like this.

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Originally Posted by Shamox

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/WBPA
More like this.

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Could have sworn I set priestly omelette. Nonetheless, the det in the weapon was to account for the relics already higher det, as well as the fact that it's unlikely we'll be able to add additional stats. This assumes you went full crit/det of course.

Or is that something that needn't be accounted for?

Looks like we're saying sayonara to 1100 crit.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/WCFC

Came up with this set and thought it looked pretty good.