Translations (JP to English)

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

You think there's no way to learn it in England?

Apart from self study either through book or the internet, a lot of places run Japanese language courses. I wanted to study Japanese for a long time but also assumed there was nowhere to do it here. It was only 3 years ago that I learned about a Japanese class being run 10 minutes from my house that had been going for quite some time.

In addition to this, several major cities also have an Anglo-Japanese society where you can meet Japanese people and practice conversing in Japanese.

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True, I can't afford to go to a college or university at the moment to learn it though. Plus I'd have no real practical use for it unless I moved to Japan (which is actually one of my life goals >.>). I do have a Japanese to english dictionary though that teaches me words and phrases, and spend a lot watching anime in subtitles which does help a little. Though I haven't really learned to say much beyond "Hello", "Sorry" "I am...", "Hello" (Telephone version) and "Thank you" which is all pretty basic stuff.

Though somehow I can sing along to Motteke Sailor Fuku fluently... just have no idea what I'm saying XD

But there's a practical use for learning japanese: Playing Tales Of games ~

Self-teaching is the only way to learn the language. Classes are for weeaboos.

All you need is a 20 buck book, internet access and patience.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Self-teaching is the only way to learn the language. Classes are for weeaboos.

All you need is a 20 buck book, internet and patience.

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Wish that were true for writing it. Talking is one thing but I can't work out how their alphabet works. It's no wonder they're so artistic, I can't even write some of their letters @.@

It's especially true for writing.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Wish that were true for writing it. Talking is one thing but I can't work out how their alphabet works. It's no wonderthey're so artistic, I can't even write some of their letters @.@

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Oh what a load of crap, please.

You say that like every japanese citizen is some sort of genius or something. It's their fricking alphabet, they learn it as children just like every other country that uses phonetic symbols. Is everyone in China an artist? I can guarantee you no.

I can understand having a passion for the country and the culture, but having weeaboo blindfolds like that isn't going to help you.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Oh what a load of crap, please.

You say that like every japanese citizen is some sort of genius or something. It's their fricking alphabet, they learn it as children just like every other country that uses phonetic symbols. Is everyone in China an artist? I can guarantee you no.

I can understand having a passion for the country and the culture, but having weeaboo blindfolds like that isn't going to help you.

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Japanese cartoon

American cartoon

Who's better at art? :p

I know what you mean though, if you learn it as a kid it's easier than trying to learn it as an adult. Kids learn things quicker than adults, natural fact.

It's just that in comparison, the Japanese alphabet just seems so much more complex than the English alphabet to me.

You really need to move to Japan someday. You need a firm ass-spanking by Reality himself.

They aren't special.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You really need to move to Japan someday. You need a firm ass-spanking by Reality himself.

They aren't special.

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Maybe, maybe not.

At least I'd have easier access to anime and manga without having to go 15 miles just to get to the nearest store.... which usually doesn't sell the good stuff.

Anyways we're flying off topic, this is Reinhearts awesome thread so I'm gonna shut up now except to thank Reinheart for translating for us.

Thanks Reinheart ^.^ (and sorry for making a mess of the last two pages. I'll behave now)

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It's especially true for writing.

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Yes quite true. When I graduated from highschool my friends got me workbooks. They were essentialy childrens books where you had to write the same character again and again and again. I carried that book everywhere I went and whenever I had a spare moment I practiced. As a result, I can read and write Japanese fairly well. (I'd rate myself at a 3rd/4th grade level. Can't read a newspaper well tho)

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Japanese cartoon

American cartoon

Who's better at art? :p

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci

He is.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I know what you mean though, if you learn it as a kid it's easier than trying to learn it as an adult. Kids learn things quicker than adults, natural fact.

It's just that in comparison, the Japanese alphabet just seems so much more complex than the English alphabet to me.

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It's not that much more complex. Try Chinese, it's actually much harder than Japanese is. Not to mention the Cyrillic Alphabet, Arabic, Hebrew... There's loads of very difficult alphabets to learn.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You really need to move to Japan someday. You need a firm ass-spanking by Reality himself.

They aren't special.

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Exactly.

You do know Otaku is a derogatory term and they're considered no better than the stereotypical "nerds" we have here in the west right?

It's a great culture with lots of interesting things to learn from, but they're far from perfect and amazing. In fact they have loads of social issues and cultural problems, including a still strong presence of racism in pop culture and the highest suicide rate in the world, among other things.

I'm not trying to put Japan done, I'm just saying being blind and considering them the most amazing people to ever grace planet earth of their existence is a bit much.

I also apologize for the derailing as well, that's all I had to say really.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yes quite true. When I graduated from highschool my friends got me workbooks. They were essentialy childrens books where you had to write the same character again and again and again. I carried that book everywhere I went and whenever I had a spare moment I practiced. As a result, I can read and write Japanese fairly well. (I'd rate myself at a 3rd/4th grade level. Can't read a newspaper well tho)

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I don't mean just any book. There are good methods to practice the language (SRS+Heisig) and there are bad methods (what the great majority of classes teach you) like banging your head against the wall.

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It's not that much more complex. Try Chinese, it's actually much harder than Japanese is.

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Eh, they use the same alphabet, just differently and with slight modifications. Both are hard to learn but in different ways.

Like intonation which is easy for someone learning Japanese but learning Chinese it's a nightmare if your mother language doesn't make use of it.

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Originally Posted by Colino

It's a great culture with lots of interesting things to learn from, but they're far from perfect and amazing.

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From what I understand 'Otaku' sort of translates as 'obsessionist', it's not actually relative to anime or anything, but it's more commonly associated with it. (A bit like how 'Neko' in america means 'cat-person' when in Japan it just means 'cat')

I can understand what you mean. to be honest the one thing that really made me kind of be a fan of them is this thing I read saying it's traditional that parents only give presents to their kids on christmas if the kid still believes in santa claus, and a lot of parents try to keep their kid believing for as long as they can. It sounds stupid but I think it's really sweet, in the U.K most parents would tell the kid that santa wasn't real the moment the child was born.

Then there was the other thing where it's considered bad luck (I think it was bad luck, or something like that) for a woman to be single during christmas, so it's traditional to ask out a girl/guy you have a crush on leading up to christmas.

I dunno if any of that is actually true or not, but if it is I really envy them. Sure they do have problems, but at least Christmas there feels like christmas, here nobody even bothers putting up decorations anymore, art and culture festivals barely even exist in schools. It's like every day is a monday in the middle of may, everyone's lost their sense of what festivals and holidays are meant to be like ; ;

but yeah I'll stop now... or at least I'll TRY to stop now...

I've never taken a class in Japanese, so I suppose you are right.

I used Pimsleur to start out and then the rest was just using it and consulting a dictionary and asking "How do you say...?" as needed? I'm far from fluent... But the books really helped my reading and writing.

There's much to like about Japan (or any culture for that matter)... I also like to focus on the positive.

Just a final derailment:

I'm no language specialist, but as far as I've heard Japanese - is - regarded as one of the hardest languages to learn for native latin / germanic derived language speakers, because of the differences on the alphabet, overal grammar structure, etc...

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if it is I really envy them.

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You know there's this forest I think it was in northern part of Japan, it's called the Suicide forest because so many people go out there specifically to die. The local ranger that patrols the area finds like 20 bodies a year and tons of people 'camping' there alone (struggling with making the decision). Pressure from the society to act in a certain way leads them there eventually.

But yeah, at least they have silly christmas ideals and kawaii uguu anime.

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I'm no language specialist, but as far as I've heard Japanese - is - regarded as one of the hardest languages to learn for native latin / germanic derived language speakers, because of the differences on the alphabet, overal grammar structure, etc...

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Let's just say that if you prepare properly, it's not much harder at all. But the problem is that nobody teaches you the proper way, and no preparation is done before it is too late.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Just a final derailment:

I'm no language specialist, but as far as I've heard Japanese - is - regarded as one of the hardest languages to learn for native latin / germanic derived language speakers, because of the differences on the alphabet, overal grammar structure, etc...

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I can say it's not, especially when coming from a latin language. In fact, most Italians/Spaniards I know pronounce all Japanese words perfectly, because they would sound exactly the same in their language.

It's harder than English I'll give you that much, but it's not even close to languages like Hungarian, Ukranian or some other stuff.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

But yeah, at least they have silly christmas ideals and kawaii uguu anime.

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We've had our disagreements, my friend, but I'm with you 100% on this one. Also I believe the name of the forest is Aokigahara, but don't quote me on it.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I can say it's not, especially when coming from a latin language. In fact, most Italians/Spaniards I know pronounce all Japanese words perfectly, because they would sound exactly the same in their language.

It's harder than English I'll give you that much, but it's not even close to languages like Hungarian, Ukranian or some other stuff.

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Pronounciation is not really the issue with Japanese, it's the writing, reading, and grammar structure that is completely different. They don't have a 'be'-verb at all, instead they have this abstract "topic" and "attribute" system instead. their sentence structure is neither object-subject-verb, nor subject-object-verb. It's just verb. Which leads to many issues...

My language is considered as one of the most difficult European languages to learn (sister language of Hungarian- or was it Ukranian?), but for a latin language speaker it is still easier than learning an Asian language. It's different in many ways, but not -that- different.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You know there's this forest I think it was in northern part of Japan, it's called the Suicide forest because so many people go out there specifically to die. The local ranger that patrols the area finds like 20 bodies a year and tons of people 'camping' there alone (struggling with making the decision). Pressure from the society to act in a certain way leads them there eventually.

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They also have the lowest crime rate

In my town I'm lucky if I can go out for a few hours without having some ignorant teenager shout abuse at me just because I wear gothy/cyberpunk clothes.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Pronounciation is not really the issue with Japanese, it's the writing, reading, and grammar structure that is completely different. They don't have a 'be'-verb at all, instead they have this abstract "topic" and "attribute" system instead. their sentence structure is neither object-subject-verb, nor subject-object-verb. It's just verb. Which leads to many issues...

My language is considered as one of the most difficult European languages to learn (sister language of Hungarian- or was it Ukranian?), but for a latin language speaker it is still easier than learning an Asian language. It's different in many ways, but not -that- different.

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Yeah I was mostly thinking about the speaking, but I am aware that way sentences and the grammar in general is very different.

I remember reading Hungarian was definitely up there as far as difficulty. I'm learning Mandarin Chinese and while the reading/writing is pretty difficult, the speaking part is VERY easy and the grammar is actually extremely simple. Which is funny considering how many people ask me how incredibly hard it must be.

ugh i thought you guys were done and going back on topic -1 for all of you >.<

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You know there's this forest I think it was in northern part of Japan, it's called the Suicide forest because so many people go out there specifically to die. The local ranger that patrols the area finds like 20 bodies a year and tons of people 'camping' there alone (struggling with making the decision). Pressure from the society to act in a certain way leads them there eventually.

But yeah, at least they have silly christmas ideals and kawaii uguu anime.



Let's just say that if you prepare properly, it's not much harder at all. But the problem is that nobody teaches you the proper way, and no preparation is done before it is too late.

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I'm sorry to keep derailing but I've seen this a lot (it must have a special on the history channel or something).

It's actually called Mount Fuji and it is an obviously spiritual place to many people there. If you don't think national forest park rangers in the US find suicides you are deluding yourself, we just lack any equivalent in terms of spiritual significance dating back thousands of years for people to congregate to do that in one location.

Japan does have high suicide rates, so do most developed nations, and it is a problem but it is not a reflection of a specifically perverted culture either. Unless you think Sweden and Canada are also obsessed with suicide. The way I personally look at it (though it is a much more complicated situation than this) is that the Japanese are simply more open to discussing topics relating to death whereas most Western cultures are deeply afraid of the subject.

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Originally Posted by Colino

Yeah I was mostly thinking about the speaking, but I am aware that way sentences and the grammar in general is very different.

I remember reading Hungarian was definitely up there as far as difficulty. I'm learning Mandarin Chinese and while the reading/writing is pretty difficult, the speaking part is VERY easy and the grammar is actually extremely simple. Which is funny considering how many people ask me how incredibly hard it must be.

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I'm surprised that you think that. Isn't a huge part of Mandarin learning the intonation of all the words? It's not exactly Cantonese bad but still if you're not used to it I figured it would be a difficult task to master.

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It's actually called Mount Fuji and it is an obviously spiritual place to many people there.

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It's close to it, but the forest is called Aokigahara.

Sure America has that uhh Golden Gate Bridge? where people commit suicide a lot, but to say that this isn't a reflection of the perverted culture that exists in Japan would be quite a claim.

Japanese are not doing mentally that well, and even though other countries could do better few places go to such extremes in practicing their culture as Japan does. You bring shame to your family? You are trash and may as well go die. It's funny that these people can go 'camping' in the forest for weeks and nobody comes looking for them. It's usually the ranger that goes to talk to them and may turn their heads. It's the sort of mindset that is disgusting.

It's at the foot of mount Fuji, it's not CALLED Mt.Fuji.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Japanese are simply more open to discussing topics relating to death whereas most Western cultures are deeply afraid of the subject.

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They are most definitely not. I have no idea where you pulled that out of. They even stopped publishing the number of suicides that happen in said forest just to downlplay the tragedy.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I'm surprised that you think that. Isn't a huge part of Mandarin learning the intonation of all the words? It's not exactly Cantonese bad but still if you're not used to it I figured it would be a difficult task to master.

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Yeah intonation is the main difficulty. But in all honesty it's not THAT bad. Most Mandarin speakers will still understand what you're saying as long as the context is there. It's not that many sounds to learn.

I have finally come to understand why they yell so much though, they have to make certain you understand the tones they're using.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I can say it's not, especially when coming from a latin language. In fact, most Italians/Spaniards I know pronounce all Japanese words perfectly, because they would sound exactly the same in their language.

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This one is quite true. For us here in Brazil, pronouncing something like "Domo arigato" is literally just reading the words exactly like we would if it was portuguese

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Originally Posted by Colino

Yeah intonation is the main difficulty. But in all honesty it's not THAT bad. Most Mandarin speakers will still understand what you're saying as long as the context is there. It's not that many sounds to learn.

I have finally come to understand why they yell so much though, they have to make certain you understand the tones they're using.

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Yeah I think there's like four different sounds? That's not too bad, but probably as difficult to learn as JP grammar. Not impossible but it takes some time to start "thinking" like them.

It's disgusting how the language is taught though. The particles are reduced to sound similar to "be"-verb even though that isn't even remotely accurate. As long as you can speak certain sentences thats 'good enough', but you never actually understand what you're saying. but that's besides the point.

Dudes make another topic. this is almost 2 pages with no updates from rein on devs but you people talking about stuff no one wants to see here.

Stop it make another thread.

Edit: @ Firon

I no i was checking like crazy thinking rein posted here just to see these people talking about stuff i do not want to see in this thread

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Originally Posted by DNO

Dudes make another topic. this is almost 2 pages with no updates from rein on devs but you people talking about stuff no one wants to see here.

Stop it make another thread.

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I agree i thought rien posted some new info but i was wrong!

Intonation is used in all languages.
Just google or wiki the word, english uses intonation all the time.
I am italian ( but raised in los angeles) and I've always been taught japanese phonetics are very similar to italian.

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Originally Posted by Colino

It's at the foot of mount Fuji, it's not CALLED Mt.Fuji.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara



They are most definitely not. I have no idea where you pulled that out of. They even stopped publishing the number of suicides that happen in said forest just to downlplay the tragedy.

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The significance of the site to those contemplating suicide there is its relation to Mount Fuji, it is a traditional site with ties to death/spirituality going back thousands of years. My point was that it is not just "some forest" where a bunch of loons go to kill themselves because the country is crazy, but a deeply spiritual place with traditions going back hundreds if not thousands of years.

Second of all it is not true that they no longer report suicides there to "downplay the tragedy" Japan has among the best census and information gathering regarding the trends of its citizens of any country in the world, and as of 2011 they are still reporting on not only the number of suicides (and known suicide attempts) in Japan but also specifically in the forest.

How can the subject (even specifically in relation to Mt Fuji) be "covered up" when it is celebrated in renowned Japanese literature and poetry, and the contemporary connection well known. Sure many Japanese probably do not appreciate being painted by misguided/ignorant people as "suicide fetishists" and I'm sure the park's department doesn't appreciate having to deal with it, but that is hardly evidence of a culture-wide "cover up" of the realities of death and society. Truth is they are more open in this regard, and generally as a result the Japanese have a much more mature understanding of death/dying than is common today in some modern Western societies.

As to where I pull this stuff from mostly peer reviewed journals as it is a subject I teach. Some articles maybe you should read before judging an entire culture:

Char, D. F., Tom, K. S., Young, G. C., Murakami, T., & Ames, R. (1996). A view of death and dying among the Chinese and Japanese. Hawaii Medical Journal, 55, 12, 286-90.

OTANI, Izumi. (2010). "Good Manner of Dying" as a Normative Concept: "Autocide,""Granny Dumping" and Discussions on Euthanasia/Death with Dignity in Japan. International Journal of Japanese Sociology, 19, 1.)



For an outline of the vast differences between such death accepting societies as Japan (which is not related to suicide rate) and Western European/American examples of death denying societies (who also still can have high suicide rates). Here is a link to a textbook devoted to the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Dance-Enc...7306788&sr=1-1

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Intonation is used in all languages.
Just google or wiki the word, english uses intonation all the time.
I am italian ( but raised in los angeles) and I've always been taught japanese phonetics are very similar to italian.

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Of course but it doesn't change the meaning of the word like it does with Mandarin.

Japanese intonation is extremely easy.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Of course but it doesn't change the meaning of the word like it does with Mandarin.

Japanese intonation is extremely easy.

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From what I understand the inflections in mandarin word distinguishing is not the exact same thing as intonation. Intonation is used to stress feeling in a word that would other wise be inflected differently. In mandarins case the inflection is the words standard inflection until spoken with something like sarcasm or what not which would then require intonation, the same process for english.

Stop... make another thread.... please...

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Originally Posted by Firon

Stop... make another thread.... please...

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They can't xD

It would be off topic and deleted in mins/hours lol.

Everybody knows no one mess with Reinheart's thread, so its safe here ;D

Anyway. Ive clicked on the thread several times expecting to see Reinheart posting on it =/

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

From what I understand the inflections in mandarin word distinguishing is not the exact same thing as intonation. Intonation is used to stress feeling in a word that would other wise be inflected differently. In mandarins case the inflection is the words standard inflection until spoken with something like sarcasm or what not which would then require intonation, the same process for english.

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Actually yes, I had my words mixed up. Tone is the correct term. Probably inflection too but I am not familiar with it.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Stop... make another thread.... please...

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Please! Seriously, it's getting to where we have to wade through pages between translations now.

Rein, thanks for your efforts. it is a great thing you do.

Original Thread Link: http://goo.gl/stsFp

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Originally Posted by Triairy

こんばんは。
Good Evening,

昨日、以下のコメントをさせていただいたのですが、
Yesterday I commented below

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チョコボの名前って他人から見えるんでしょうか？
Can others see the Chocobo's name?

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チョコボの頭上にネームプレートなどは出ませんが、騎乗した際、チョコボから降りた際に、ログが表示されます。
そのため、ログを確認することで、他人のチョコボの名前がわかります。
There will be no name plate displayed over Chocobo's head but when mounting or dismounting it will show up in the log.
For that reason by checking the log you can find out other peoples Chocobo names.

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開発チームより仕様が変更になったと、本日連絡がありました。
I have received message today from the dev team today regarding this.

騎乗した際、チョコボが降りた際にチョコボの名前がログに流れなくなりました。
そのためパッチ1.19の段階では、他人からチョコボの名前は見えません。
When mounting or dismounting the chocobo the name will not show up in the log.
For that reason at point of 1.19 patch others will not be able to see the name.

ただし、将来実装が予定されているチョコボと一緒に戦闘を行うといったコンテンツが実装された場合、
名前が他人に見えるようになる予定です。
However, when we release the future planned content where you can fight together with your chocobo, we are planning to make it where others will be able to see the name.

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They must of run into some bugs last minute and had to take it off for now; not a big deal imo, we still get our chocobo's :)

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Original Thread Link: http://goo.gl/stsFp


They must of run into some bugs last minute and had to take it off for now; not a big deal imo, we still get our chocobo's :)

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It may have had something to do with me instantly pointing out the slight flaw in it:

Konata Chibi mounts Mr. Flibble

The amount of crude humour that would be derived from it would be... quite substantial.

Also Rein, sorry for kinda causing the huge debate in your thread, I didn't mean for it to go so nuts ; ;

This one talks about a feature which most MMO's already have as a standard feature...
Being able to display the current progress of quest/mission.

Original Thread Link: http://goo.gl/vZNr3

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Originally Posted by Foxclon

こんにちは。
Hello,

フィードバックありがとうございます。
Thanks for the feedback,

こちらの件については、すでに仕様についてはある程度固まっており、Todoリストのようにリーヴやクエストなどの情報を常時表示させて、倒すモンスターはあと何匹だとか、集めるアイテムはあと何個だとか、進行度がどれくらいか…など確認できるようにする予定です。
Regarding this one, we are pretty much set on the ideas for this one, we are planning to make it where the widget will show in a todo list style which displays the leve or quest information and on there show/be able to check how many monsters needed for kill, how much more items to obtain, whats the current progress.

ただし、今の段階で時期についてお約束することができません。
時間はかかってしまうと思いますが、実装に向け対応を行っていきますのでお待ちいただければ幸いです。
However at current state we cannot tell you when this will be ready,
it may take some time but we are looking into this to implementation so please hand in there.

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