Healers need an overhaul

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

If you want all four "healers" to be viable "healers" in all the content, that seems pretty difficult.

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is it? stormblood had different playstyles for all 3 healers and they could all clear all the content just fine. in fact every ultimate in the game except for the newly released one has been solo healed by every single healer.
fights in this game do NOT stretch out the resources healers currently have. in a game with such infrequent and low damage the hypothetical healer job would have to be utterly terrible for it to be "unviable". nevermind that patches exist and they can keep finetuning things too.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Let's say, hypothetically, WHM becomes a "pure healer" and SGE stays what someone here called a "gimped damage dealer."
Can you have content that that requires the (assumed) higher healing output of the WHM, that is still doable with the SGE?
And can you have content that require the DPS contribution of the SGE, but is still doable on the WHM?

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you have a very black and white view of how healers can achieve the same result in different ways.
why do all 4 healers have to have almost the exact same damage "rotation"? 4 jobs, 4 playstyles.
a whm could have stronger pure heals while a sage could have stronger mitigation to deal with the incoming damage.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Perhaps you can, but it seems a lot more difficult to do than what the situation we have now.

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they managed for 11 dps jobs. im sure they can manage with 4 healers. its almost like its the developers job.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Of course, you could always take the easy path and dumb everything down so that the higher heals of the WHM and the DPS contribution of the SGE are never required, but I don't think anyone wants that.

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this is quite literally the current situation

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

If you want all four "healers" to be viable "healers" in all the content, that seems pretty difficult.

Let's say, hypothetically, WHM becomes a "pure healer" and SGE stays what someone here called a "gimped damage dealer."
Can you have content that that requires the (assumed) higher healing output of the WHM, that is still doable with the SGE?
And can you have content that require the DPS contribution of the SGE, but is still doable on the WHM?
Perhaps you can, but it seems a lot more difficult to do than what the situation we have now.

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The problem therein is that there is zero content that requires current healers to make full use of their healing kit. None. Not even Ultimate. Heck, some of the older ultimates have even been solo healed.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Guess it'll be such a shock when players such as myself begin canceling our subscription, as I already have done.

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LOL. Shock? No, not hardly.

Without lumping you into this group, I note that the loss of a few high-maintenance subscribers may not bother SE much either.
They pay the same as us casuals (maybe less than me, on average, given how many retainers I have) and us casuals, well, we' re so casual about everything.

Still, my sincere best wishes for you to find a game you utterly enjoy, like I do FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

SE didn't make you anything. They made a Sage class that, by your account, is more a damage dealer than a healer.
And you choose to run a Sage.

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.
Never expected that, BTW: I outleveled the MSQs so I picked up Sage just to "not waste the XP" from the MSQs.
Glad I did. :)

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No, i disagree. SGE follows the same rules as all healer follow and do not do anything special. Look at the toolkit and look and the other healer's and you will see: healers are similar.
People that say SGE is the "dps healer" need to explain that stance and stop to drop it like it is "wisdom from the gods".

When your argument is based on Kardia then then i will tell you even with "BIS" Gear Kardia is nice for weak auto attack's of the Boss at best and an inconvenience at worst (overheal).
Phlegma is also not an argument because the other healer's have a skill that serves the same purpose. We can go through the whole toolkit and will come to the conclusion: healers are
too similar with a lack of identity and depth at the moment (too many OGCD heals, lack of choice, no synergy with the toolkit, sometimes the job gauge and its purpose are not needed or used because of its lack in balance).

Btw. AST is a better "pure healer" then WHM. I am not sure why so many people behave as if WHM is the only healer with big heals. In fact AST can pump more heals than a WHM. Weird, ohh wait benediction -,-*

And i dont see the point "please play with absolute potatos to have fun as a healer". In my opinion this not an argument, its an insult and tells me to F-off.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

If you want all four "healers" to be viable "healers" in all the content, that seems pretty difficult.

Let's say, hypothetically, WHM becomes a "pure healer" and SGE stays what someone here called a "gimped damage dealer."
Can you have content that that requires the (assumed) higher healing output of the WHM, that is still doable with the SGE?
And can you have content that require the DPS contribution of the SGE, but is still doable on the WHM?
Perhaps you can, but it seems a lot more difficult to do than what the situation we have now.

Of course, you could always take the easy path and dumb everything down so that the higher heals of the WHM and the DPS contribution of the SGE are never required, but I don't think anyone wants that.

And then there's the go-hear-kill-this quests in the MSQ: do we eliminate them, gimp them for pure healers, or what?
After all, while arguments here seem to center on group and endgame content, solo MSQ progression is still a major part of the game.

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It's really not at all difficult actually considering most of the DPS are capable of staying largely balanced while being drastically different, and even the DPS that are lagging behind somewhat are still quite playable and often seen.

Here's a simplistic example:

Offensive Healer (Sage) - Give it a RDM lite or SMN lite rotation. Trim down some of its healing resources and empower its healing-through-DPS capabilities. Give Diagnosis and Prognosis a buff that helps SGE salvage a messy run where its other resources have run dry.

Passive Healer (Astro) - Divide Draw in to Astral Draw and Umbral Draw. Astral Draw gives you offensive buffs (Balance, Arrow, Spire) Umbral Draw gives you defensive buffs (Bole, Spear, Ewer). Both have 2 charges, both are on the GCD. Astral Play and Umbral Play replace their respective Draws when a card is drawn until the card is used. Move both of these to the GCD. Drawing and playing a card are two separate GCD actions, and each gives you a new buff stack (max 6). Casting a spell consumes 1 stack to deal a separate 250 potency attack. Synastry changes to an OGCD action that works like Kardia. Whomever you give Synastry to, including yourself, their spells and weaponskills consumes 1 of your stacks to perform a separate 250 potency attack. If there are no stacks, no attack is performed. The potency is based on you and is affected by your buffs regardless of who has Synastry.

There you go, a healer who spends most of their time buffing and supporting with balanced DPS contributions.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

No, i disagree.

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Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Btw. AST is a better "pure healer" then WHM.

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Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

The problem therein is that there is zero content that requires current healers to make full use of their healing kit. None. Not even Ultimate. Heck, some of the older ultimates have even been solo healed.

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Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

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ALL healers are gimped damage dealers. This is not exclusive to SGE. That you fail to realize how all four do far more damage dealing than they do healing shows a lack of understanding of how healers function and play in this game. In all content. The damage-to-healing ratio skew is not exclusive to Savage/Ultimate. That it’s so low in those pieces of content speaks volumes to how much you are doing in anything below it. Considering healers are barely needed for things like dungeons and Extremes, that should tell you all you need to know.

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Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

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For reference, WHM is the healer that tends to do the least amount of healing compared to its direct counterpart, AST. With SCH/SGE, it also prefers not to heal—surprisingly, SGE does more of the overall healing compared to a WHM despite being advertised as the “DPS healer”. Keep in mind that this doesn’t mean that any decent SGE is still casting Dosis III 80% or more of the time.

All four healers play like DPS, but do significantly less damage than a DPS job, and have a far less interesting “rotation”. The latter is what healers are now advocating to change, since we won’t get the increased healing output that we spent the last couple years asking for.

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Sigh. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this last statement is inappropriate and makes Banriikku look bad?

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I’m afraid that it is just you.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

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You aren’t reading what Rolder50 said: they said that there is hardly any content that requires a healer to use their full healing kit. Things like Lilybell, Seraph, Macrocosmos, and Pneuma are overkill more often than not in content. That in an of itself is one of the problems with healers: the developer give us all these shiny new healing tools, but they don’t give us content to make use of them. Or, the content they do give, is basically just for the 1% (Ultimate).

No one here is saying that they don’t like DPSing as a healer. They’re complaining that that is ALL healer seem to do anymore. The majority of the time, that is what we are doing. And our DPS “rotation” is boring. So we want it to change.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

To reiterate what I said before: I enjoy running a Sage, regardless of how people categorize the class.
And I enjoy it more than I did WHM, which seems more like the "pure healer" you want to play.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.

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I think you need to "read it again" and properly educate yourself so you can at least hold a conversation about class balance in a vacuum.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Honestly, that's a problem for you, fine, acknowledged, but it isn't for me.
As long as I'm having fun playing the game, it doesn't matter that I can DPS a bit along with healing and shielding.
I find it way more fun than the tanking, ranged DPS, and melee DPS I've done.

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Why am I not surprised another "It doesn't affect me so I don't care but I'm still going to get in the way of any possible change while remaining ignorant of the actual issue so I can use my guise of ignorance as a defense in my bad faith tactics."

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Well, you're not disagreeing with me. I'm not the one calling SGE a "gimped damage dealer." SGE is SGE, and I like it "regardless of how people categorize the class." Oh, and you may have also missed the words "seems more like" in my post, so read it again.


Could be, but I haven't played AST since before Shadowbringers, and I have played WHM recently, so that was my point of reference.


Sigh. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this last statement is inappropriate and makes Banriikku look bad?

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You are claiming some bold statements but dont want to explain ? And when pointed out you start with personal attacks. Sorry but thats how you come across.
SE decided on how we can play the healers and SE can and should change it in my opinion to a DPS rotation or BUff/Debuff mechanic. At the moment all healers play the same.