People advertising they're running Parsers

I've never seen any harassment in game from logs. All that is shunted to discord, and even then with the modern cross world pf that is seldom an issue.

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Originally Posted by Velnora

The issue is, there isn't a widespread problem of people harassing others other about their damage, and the notion that making parsers legal would suddenly cause that to change is unfounded. Parsers are a tool. One, that is essential for any sort of balancing, even for those that are so adamant against them; as it effects them too.

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Bingo.

It's not the parser itself that would be the problem.
The act of giving someone a hard time is harassment. The ban would be for harassment, not for having the parser.

If parsers were legal and someone gave someone else a hard time about their numbers, they would still get banned for harassment.

The parser itself is irrelevant. End result: Mean player harassing someone else gets banned.

Harassment not okay. Self-betterment for self-use without affecting anyone else is okay.

Really why we needed 33 pages to understand what should be a given fact...

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

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This post is very ironic. Not sure if intentional. You calling out parsers and raid leaders for getting bent out of shape over numbers while at the same time you are getting bent out of shape over numbers. The question is why even care?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

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are you okay

Yeah, parsers aren't allowed. There's always gonna be that one guy that will roast someone over their low dps. Well... you're not supposed to be roasting people in general, but sometimes you have to spell it out. Not everyone uses this tool for personal improvement only. So that's where the no parser rule comes in.

I don't mind the use of parsers or people advertising they are using one in their pf. What's wrong with wanting to look for a group of like minded individuals who all consent to the use of a parser if they're all polite about it (aside from it being against ToS)? I really wish a personal dps meter would be implemented into the game, one that you could toggle on or off, because I do genuinely believe they are very useful for improving your damage. It's a shame parsers are against the ToS just because a few people will use it as a cudgel to bash people with.

Imagine wishing a ban upon the use of a calculator.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Apartments aren't a cooperative activity with stakes that can be scored quantitively... at least not without a huge stretch in logic. It would be reasonable to be suspicious of someone opting to intentionally hide their score in a video game, particularly if you were interested in trying to put an effective team together.

While I definitely think exceptions exist, speaking from my own experience with hundreds of hours pug raiding in this game (and lots of time recruiting for statics), the overwhelming majority of people who opt to hide their logs are not doing so because they're embarrassed about how amazing they are at the game. I try to give these types a chance because of the few exceptions I've seen, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't end up regretting it 99% of the time.

Of the 'good' examples I know, where the player had hidden their logs despite being highly skilled, most of them were highly unstable people that struggled with self-image issues around their parses, and would often get extremely toxic or upset if something in a run wasn't going their way. I find a similar mentality haunts the types of 'bad' players that opt to hide them as well; They're usually irrationally afraid of how people will judge them based on their logs. In some cases, I've even had people lash out at me during recruitment conversations when I've asked them to unhide their logs for me to take a look.

Anyway, the moral of the story is, even if it's not a performance red-flag, hidden logs are often a mentality red-flag.

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You need to realize that the authority of SE far exceeds that of any raid/party leader or any third party tool. The data pertaining to a particular character is entrusted to the player of said character. They are allowed to use that data and limit it's use to some degree.

Being what you call a "bad player" is not a crime. They are not a suspect to be tried in your court. If you don't want them in the group you are forming then don't let them in. But, don't make it public that you are looking at FFlogs to make your decision.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

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I find it highly toxic to just be a deadweight on the party and expect everyone to be your slave and carry you through no effort of your own without asking. However, you dont really need a parser to see if someone is being a massive deadweight. It's making it easier to notice more minor cases but extreme cases are very obvious without a parser. Logs are just useful to keep raiders honest, literally no one of importance will care about dungeon logs. Yes they exist currently, no they are not cared about. This isnt wow, please stop pretending that it is.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Cute switching out the letter P with B, but no.

Don't do it, you know it's not allowed. You want to run your Abacus with yourself of your group of friends together, go for it.

Don't ask, Don't tell is still very much in play, people can and will report you for it and if you get caught you're in trouble.

Run your calculator quietly, don't go shouting it out that you are going to check others with your math tools and decide if they can play with you.

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ok grey LOL

I like this wordplay like 'abacus' and 'math tools' implying parsers are even remotely hard to use or understand.

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I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

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No one, literally ever, in 14 years of wow, has pointed out DPS numbers in Ragefire Chasm or Deadmines in WoW from my experience-which is that game's version of Sastasha. People don't even do this in max level dungeons in WoW, outside of the most toxic of people, which both games have such people, otherwise it happens in both games only in content where DPS actually matters.

I think you're exaggerating a little.

Also falls to reason to say, if you were doing good dps people wouldn't complain about your dps....have you tried getting better instead of getting offended that people called you out on poor performance? Just saying.