Please implement something to teach players how to play

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

In any other game, even other MMOs, it'd be called "a well-crafted difficulty curve" -- precisely the way any game provides ramps and bridges to being able to enjoy said game more deeply or in novel ways. Only here do we seem so eager to mislabel such as oppressive or forceful.

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Arguably they do have a difficulty curve. The first boss of any early ARR boss dungeon compared to ShB is quite different in difficulty or complexity. It might not be to a level you want it to be, but there certainly is a curve.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

Then again, the devs have also intended for players to do savage and extreme content and a big part of the JP playerbase does just that, while the EU and NA servers only have a fraction of those numbers or even attempts

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That is optional content not connected to the MSQ or general gameplay. The horrible players (5% maybe?) who are in question are either not playing these, being carried, or being vote-kicked. In the case of a carry, you have the option to vote kick or leave the party. At any rate, I can't believe you would encounter this at any regular rate unless your server is full of trolls.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Guess I'm an elitist for expecting people to know how to push more than 2-3 buttons.

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That's not what is being discussed here (so I've been told). Most people playing are competent at the game, with like a C+ if we were grading. What you're talking about is a fraction of a fraction of the population that is largely trolls.

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Truth be told, I'm not sure this widespread problem of horrible players is even a real thing. I can count on my hand the number of times I've met a player in DF who was awful and refused to improve.. most have been very agreeable and open to suggestions.

Those that I did meet were absolutely trolling the DF and easily kicked.

(I play on JP server, full disclosure; where the clowns are usually the English speakers)

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Guess I'm an elitist for expecting people to know how to push more than 2-3 buttons.

If the game was designed for jobs to only have 2-3 buttons then why do we have all these extras? From what I can gleam this game is intended for you to make use of no less than 3/4 of the actions.

If you wanna be lazy in dungeons stick to trusts. But oh wait, that takes too much effort to level them. Guess you'll be stuck risking kicks for holding groups back. Enjoy not getting dungeon completion.

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I'm just going to call this out. If two or 3 buttons is enough to get through the content. That is all that is required, than yes you are being one.


Lucky for you the game has options that lets you get around it. Leaving the group, or better yet. See if other people in the group have the same issues as you and vote kick them. Trust me they won't care, and will just group up again.



You get rewards for playing and putting up with these types of players. Lucky for you the content is so easy that even if they play like that. You still get it done.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Leave the content they enjoy alone. What is wrong with you all?

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Aaaaand here we got the husband! Where is Jadedsins? Why did "she" stopped talking?

This statement can be used for you, too. If you dont like it, stay out of it. Take your wife and go fishing if playing the game is too hard for you. So that is your universal answer? Be afk or stay away? Pretty selfish, huh? ^^.

Yes, leave the content other people enjoy alone. But instead some players smuggle themself into clear-groups and ruins the entire run, because they are crying about not getting instant savage kills just by paying their subscription.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I'm just going to call this out. If two or 3 buttons is enough to get through the content. That is all that is required, than yes you are being one.


Lucky for you the game has options that lets you get around it. Leaving the group, or better yet. See if other people in the group have the same issues as you and vote kick them. Trust me they won't care, and will just group up again.



You get rewards for playing and putting up with these types of players. Lucky for you the content is so easy that even if they play like that. You still get it done.

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The lengths you people go to defend this stuff. Looks like the community needs to set a standard and stick to it so lazy leeches like you ether shape up or leave the game because it's "too hard" or "too much effort"

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Aaaaand here we got the husband! This statement can be used for you, too. If you dont like it, stay out of it. Take your wife and go fishing if playing the game is too hard for you.

Yes, leave the content other people enjoy alone. But instead some players smuggle themself into clear-groups and ruins the entire run, because they are crying about not getting instant savage kills just by paying their subscription.

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ANNNNNNND here is the person who made my wife laugh so hard. That she woke me up. Thanks for that btw. That overreacting was pretty good on your part.



I don't have a problem with bad players in content. You all do. This is not about me. I'm just calling you all out for acting like you want what is best for other players. When clearly all you want is better groups for yourself. Has nothing to do with someone elses fun.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I don't have a problem with bad players in content. You all do. This is not about me. I'm just calling you all out for acting like you want what is best for other players. When clearly all you want is better groups for yourself. Has nothing to do with someone elses fun.

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Why should we be tolerant of other people's intolerance?

I find it funny that you all want to call them leeches, but they can get the content done without your skills. If all of them group up and leech with each other. They still would get through the content.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Why should we be tolerant of other people's intolerance?

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Ah so we going down that rabbit hole eh? That can be turned around on you.




Besides the few people on this forum. Most people are pretty chill and ok in groups as long as the content gets done. So I don't get much of a chance to laugh at silly drama because the community is just so accepting and nice in the content I do with her. Makes me happy for her. Sad for my humor.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Well the leeches don't need you to get the dungeon done. So at the end of the day. Run the roulette and understand that you are playing with people like that. it is for them just as much as for you. The content is design with them in mind, So asking them to meet your standards when the game does not require them or ask them to do it is very much not required or needed.

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Trusts are designed specifically for these types of players who would rather leisurely stroll through a given dungeon and not actually utilize their skills. The only reason for those players to queue into DF is because Trusts take significantly longer to clear. In other words, they want to benefit from better players killing things faster. That comes with expectations that if not met, may lead to your dismissal.

Furthermore, DF isn't designed with the purposeful intent of playing poorly or not pushing your buttons but rather with the assumption inexperienced players won't understand the order properly or might make more basic mistakes. Japanese culture simply wouldn't allow for it because leeches are decidedly uncommon.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Aaaaand here we got the husband! This statement can be used for you, too. If you dont like it, stay out of it. Take your wife and go fishing if playing the game is too hard for you. So that is your universal answer? Be afk or stay away? Pretty selfish, huh? ^^.

Yes, leave the content other people enjoy alone. But instead some players smuggle themself into clear-groups and ruins the entire run, because they are crying about not getting instant savage kills just by paying their subscription.

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I mean, what's he's been saying isn't wrong. If the Devs have made it a level of hard that can be cleared with sub-par C+ players, then that's all the level of skill that's required to play that content.

The Devs heard people who want something harder and have spent some time developing that with Savage/Ultimate and the Faux stuff. That they HAVEN'T put more time into hard content and that they cut ultimate trials should tell you all you need to know about the team's perspective on difficult content.

If you get a crappy player, you have options to remove them from your team and/or blacklist them and move on.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The lengths you people go to defend this stuff. Looks like the community needs to set a standard and stick to it so lazy leeches like you ether shape up or leave the game because it's "too hard" or "too much effort"

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Where are these vast number of F- 3 skill using "leeches" everyone keeps referring to? Is there an infected server I'm just unaware of?

An A+ player being mad at your average casual playing at C+ level is not leeching.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I find it funny that you all want to call them leeches, but they can get the content done without your skills. If all of them group up and leech with each other. They still would get through the content.

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We don't get to pick who we're paired with, so please excuse us for taking issue with people that put in less effort than us for the same amount of rewards.