Black Mage

Well they could tune it for it high risk, high return, sometimes problems can be fixed with a tuning pass, I suppose that the intent is creating alternatives not the next big deal as such one can find a more safer comp to be more attractive than a high resk/reward one.

That said I proposed earlier a shorter ley lines with a shorter CD to line it up with trick attack and in part allowing more freedom (as galvuu said longer ley lines would actually be huirtful for our mobility)

I was also thinking, what if we could provide a raid wide haste buff like litany/battle voice? I know speed not the best stat but could be something different, what's your opinion?

It's ok some jobs don't provide buffs to the party. As long they actually compensate with their own personal damage. Which BLM doesn't and nor does SAM. WHM provides nothing but strong consistent heals and damage with near unlimited MP and they made it work, why can't they push the concept on DPS further and give them more damage? The point is, WHM is not optimal but has desirable traits that can be brought upon a party. Meanwhile BLM doesn't.

I think BLM should simply be the caster of SAM being as equal as possible in terms of damage to make up for its lack of offensive utilities.
They will do a little less damage in highly mobile fights but once more when they're able to cast they should be able to make things explode.

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Originally Posted by Krisom

I think BLM should simply be the caster of SAM being as equal as possible in terms of damage to make up for its lack of offensive utilities.
They will do a little less damage in highly mobile fights but once more when they're able to cast they should be able to make things explode.

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The thing is, we already proven in this thread this is both not true and without buffing (both jobs mind you) they are not capable to do any of those things any better than other non pure damage jobs. Simple currently relevant example: BRD can kill Shinryu's Tails with more ease than a BLM without having to manage too much overkill. Yeah BLM can make the tail "explode" in two or three spells, but the last spell will deal less real damage to the tail than the damage it would deal to the boss itself. Meanwhile SMN beats BLM on a low mobility fight like Catastrophe.

I honestly don't know how much more simply I can put it. Unless the damage is substantially higher and not insanely difficult to do (see also: movement management/pray to RNGsus), it will always be better to have party support over raw damage. Otherwise I could just play SMN, do marginally less personal damage (that is, if they do buff BLM), and give Radiant Shield + Devotion to the entire group, not to mention that it's now basically a god of mobility.

@Remedi I suggested a while back that Enochian give a speed or direct hit buff to the group like BRD's songs do. Another good utility would be if every other Ley Lines could be extrapolated out for the entire party. Also, if they did want to fix Ley Lines to 2 minutes with a longer duration, they should make a reverse-Between the Lines that brings the circle to the caster so you could use both. To throw out another suggestion, I feel like a Dragon Sight-style tether would fit BLM better than it fits DRG, so I'd like to see a 10%/5% tether for it, or even a "party members within a 15 -yalm radius" like Devotion but for BLM. The whole "feeding the aether of the party" thing sounds like it fits.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

The thing is, we already proven in this thread this is both not true and without buffing (both jobs mind you) they are not capable to do any of those things any better than other non pure damage jobs. Simple currently relevant example: BRD can kill Shinryu's Tails with more ease than a BLM without having to manage too much overkill. Yeah BLM can make the tail "explode" in two or three spells, but the last spell will deal less real damage to the tail than the damage it would deal to the boss itself. Meanwhile SMN beats BLM on a low mobility fight like Catastrophe.

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Hold my hand for this one; what is not true exactly?

I also think that SAM needs a damage buff also and the point is if BLM's personal DPS would be anywhere it'd be whatever platform SAM is on.
They're both "selfish" DPS, for a lack of a better word.

Technically speaking they already have the data for an haste raidwide from V3s they simply need to make it avaible to players, but I too thought it could be spread when standing in ley lines (just the activation, it woudln'r require us standing in it to be active on ppl) I think it should be haste because if it is direct hit, you would be compared to BRd and still come short, if it's something no1 else brings well then you are something to consider on
Personally I'm for a shorter CDs on ley lines with a shorter duration, enough to stay in the entirity of trick attack, contagion and all other buff (20 secs with 1 min should be fine), but I kinda like the idea of the dragon-sight tether and what if we could provide the umbral ice regen effect to the wearer (I know this sounds a bit on the OP side but can be tweaked honestly).

That said I think we kinda need a stetement from SE in regards to their plan and if their plan is for BLM to be a selfish style dps, THEN they have to commit on that

The fact that SAM's personal damage is not enough either. So making BLM close to it solves no problems. So comparing their outputs right now isn't really fruitful. On top of that there are more physical damage buffs and SAM can take more advantage of any given buffs (Trick Attack specially) helping them pull of on fight personal number statistics over BLM when both have really close numbers when devoid of external influences.

Also as stated earlier in the thread, mobility isn't much of an issue anymore outside progression and jobs do more than BLM on fights with more movement because they also tend to have more Bosses jumping around which values well planned OGCDs more making pretty much every other job have something to be used to pull ahead over BLM's damage.

@Krisom: Yeah SMN is a mobility god among casters now. They only really lose a big chunk of DPS if switching too many R3 by 2 and even then a good amount of R4 procs can compensate those trades. And Bahamut movement is still and issue but its a small sacrifice when done or can simply be adjusted in ways it won't become a loss.

They've already officially stated "low utility, high damage", but the issue is that it flat out is bad logic in practice. In short, we need to help convince them of that as the playerbase, because time and time again we see it not panning out. All jobs should have some form of utility for party play, otherwise parties don't want them, period. No one wants to play a class that is actively shunned, that's just lame.

I would still argue that movement is still a factor now that progression is over, largely due to RNG (vines vs. clock positions vs. blues in Halicarnassus, being on the wrong side for flood of naught colors, etc). This is forced movement no matter which way you slice it, and if you had already planned/used your triplecast/swiftcast then you lose significantly more damage than any other job. This NEEDS to be amended, at least partially. As I've said in this thread probably a dozen times, not all classes have to be excellent in progression/at movement, but BLM is at a HUGE disadvantage over the other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

They've already officially stated "low utility, high damage", but the issue is that it flat out is bad logic in practice. In short, we need to help convince them of that as the playerbase, because time and time again we see it not panning out. All jobs should have some form of utility for party play, otherwise parties don't want them, period. No one wants to play a class that is actively shunned, that's just lame.

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It's not, really. By launch of Stormblood SAM was desired because DRG wasn't very strong so their raw damage could outdo DRG's utility. But then the buffs came and well the rest is history. Sfia is trying to bring to light the fact of "low utility, high damage" is simply not working because our damage is actually low by the end. As in all forms of utility, they did a good job throwing most of defensive utility into role actions making the old issue of Int Down need and Disable+Virus brokeness gone. Meanwhile they gave BRD and MCH their own mitigation skills which are actually stronger than everything else and currently two tanks have party wide shields while one doesn't swinging the balance in a bad way. So what was the point again? Haha. kill me