This patch dropped the ball hard

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Originally Posted by Colt47

After years of posting on forums like this I don't really expect change to come from one persons meanderings, let alone my own. However, making it known that there is something that can be improved in the design of the game can be useful for others who are looking into making future games like this.

That and they very well may coincidentally implement some of the changes I'm pushing for.

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Money speaks. You have no evidence your ideas will work to improve the game's growth and retention rates. The issue is not with good ideas, they are everywhere. The issue is finding good ideas that are actually worth implementing.

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Originally Posted by ZemusM

No I don't thats why MMO's typically die out after a few years for something new. However the mechanics of said new games still use the same style of loot system that never changes and the cycle repeats itself,

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Oh, how I'm going to be flamed for this, but: SE themselves created n MMO that had P2P for over a decade, with no cash shop shenanigans. Yes, I mean FFXI. I am not saying I want this game to turn into XI, not at all. However, there is no denying that SE did a lot of things right with the game, yet have chosen to ignore it. They could very well give us a similar variety of endgame content that actually lasts more then 3 months.

SE themselves bucked the trend your talking about....yet ignore it all.

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

You have proof of these numbers? Or did you yank them out of the aether?

Regardless: do you really expect people to continue doing the same exact thing forever? As I've said before: there's only so long people are going to put up with the same old song and dance.

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http://www.gamespot.com/articles/squ.../1100-6427263/

Square's Digital Entertainment division was up 18.4%. That's not all driven by FFXIV, but considering they just released an expansion and charged for it, I'd say the game is doing well.

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

Oh, how I'm going to be flamed for this, but: SE themselves created n MMO that had P2P for over a decade, with no cash shop shenanigans. Yes, I mean FFXI. I am not saying I want this game to turn into XI, not at all. However, there is no denying that SE did a lot of things right with the game, yet have chosen to ignore it. They could very well give us a similar variety of endgame content that actually lasts more then 3 months.

SE themselves bucked the trend your talking about....yet ignore it all.

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Compare FFXI's performance to WoW's performance. Which had better growth and retention rates?

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Originally Posted by Delily

Money speaks. You have no evidence your ideas will work to improve the game's growth and retention rates. The issue is not with good ideas, they are everywhere. The issue is finding good ideas that are actually worth implementing.

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Eh, money shouldn't really be relevant to the discussion. A game can be amazing, but end up tanking if it used more money in its development than it can get as a return investment. Wild Star is a good example of that, as it was well received by critics and players, but tanked to F2P nonetheless. Similarly, a game could cut many corners, but have excellent presentation and still be a financial success. Then you have games that can be terrible, but were financially successful due to brand name. FFXIII is a good example of that. The money gained from sales is the result of a lot of factors, some of which can have an effect disproportional to whether the game is actually considered good to its intended audience.

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Originally Posted by Delily

Compare FFXI's performance to WoW's performance. Which had better growth and retention rates?

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And? They are/were both profitable MMO's with a different take on the genre. Also, retention rates? They both lasted for over a decade, I'd say both games had vey good retention rates.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Eh, money shouldn't really be relevant to the discussion. *snip*.

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Money is literally the reason FFXIV exists. Everyone has all sorts of ideas on how to improve the game, but no one is capable of proving those ideas will attract new customers and retain existing ones. The teams working on the game have plenty of work to do. If you're going to make a suggestion, bring some proof it's worth implementing.

All of this talk about finances is completely bloody pointless.

Let Square Enix hash out the numbers. That's entirely on them. All we can do is keep making noise and hope that SE recognizes that there is a contingent of their player base that does not find the status quo to be acceptable. I mean, that is literally the only thing we can do, because obviously money doesn't actually talk (unsubbing says something but it can say any number of things especially since they don't have an unsubscription survey). Telling us not to bother BECAUSE MONEY is about the most unproductive conversation we can possibly have, ever.

Lol, "bring proof" you say. The proof is in our words and deeds. You're not going to get people to somehow magically create a representative survey of the player base or create some kind of amazing presentation to show how THIS solution is so much better than THAT solution, so that kind of rhetoric is effectively the same thing as "don't bother, you can't win", and just as unproductive as the BECAUSE MONEY excuse.

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

And? They are/were both profitable MMO's with a different take on the genre. Also, retention rates? They both lasted for over a decade, I'd say both games had vey good retention rates.

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Ok, I'll agree with retention rate. Imagine you're an investor in Square. Which game would you rather have them focus on?

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Originally Posted by Delily

Ok, I'll agree with retention rate. Imagine you're an investor in Square. Which game would you rather have them focus on?

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I'd rather them focus on their own game/history then giving two shits what the other guys are doing. If that means bringing something from XI(which they've been doing all along),tweaking it for this game, then so be it. If it means coming up with something entirely new, then so be it.