The Black Mage Rotations

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

Second flare in turn 4? I am hitting flares back to back multiple times with only a 2 -3 second wait on transpose whenever the tick hits, in turn 4. You only do 2? Am I doing something wrong? I understand the insurance policy, but it you wait the 2 seconds after a mana tick your gonna be fine.

Fire III -> astral fire III - flare - transpose - wait 2 seconds on first mana tick - flare - flare - transpose - wait 2 seconds on first mana tick - flare - flare - transpose etc. I don't know if the damage output is the same as putting the fire II in between or our other rotation of fire III - fire II - flare - transpose - fire III - fire II - flare etc.

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No idea never parsed this method or even used it to know. I actually would never use the double flare UI3 trick, not before the patch and not after. I won't help give SE another reason to break the UI 3 ticks. I'm against using it but that is just my opinion. We all know SE think of this as a glitch/bug, so no thanks don't want to ever see another UI 3 "fix" or flare nerf just because of something SE does not like.

You have to be careful with transpose/flare and low MS. You might find yourself stuck in astral fire 3 after your transpose failed because you were mashing it during your flare cast. heh

Has happened to me multiple times. I just wish they'd standardize the freaking MP regen system for, at the very least, BLMs. Having to wait 2-3 seconds after I enter umbral ice 3 and sometimes having no wait time at all really screws with you.

At times I wish to hammer this simple solution home until it sticks...

Undo the UI3 change.
Give Flare a 5-10s recast.
Make Swiftcast reset the cooldown of all BLM damaging abilities.
Separate the mana regen and cast time reduction effects into 2 parts. Mana regen ticks as before the fix. But the cast time reduction is a single stack buff that refreshes when UI3 refreshes, and is lost when a Fire element spell is "successfully cast".

Now, you cant double flare from UI3, you cant double flare from UI1, you can still double flare from swiftcast... so down from every 12 sec to once a minute.

Also, you can fast-cast 1 Fire spell going out of UI3. If you fail to cast it, tough luck, cast another B1 and try again.

BUT... Mana ticks will work like before. We can still save the fluidity of the Pre-2.1 BLM rotation!

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

For AoE rotation. I don't recall who said this, but transpose right after oom for instant tick then Fire III immediately does not really work well. The reason is the second tick is always 3 seconds wait if I'm not mistaken. First instant tick is 1.2k, enough for one Fire III followed by one Fire II.

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After Transpose, you wait until the first mana tick and cast Fire 3. This takes about about 3.5s (since you're in UI1 not UI3), which means that you'll get a second tick during casting. You should then have enough mana to cast two Fire 2 and then Flare.

With your Spell Speed of 505, Fire 3 should still take 3.27s to cast. I'm going by the Spell Speed data in The Ultimate Black Mage Resources with Damage Calculator. When in UI1, you don't lose the UI buff until the Fire 3 hits (unlike how they "fixed" UI3).

Even if you have to wait a half-second or so in order to get that second mana tick, it's still worth it. It will still give higher DPS than a B3-F3-F2 rotation, even if your Spell Speed is fast enough to save one mana tick.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

I have to ask, but why are you guys putting the fire II in-between the double flare?

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The extra Fire 2 gives a very minor DPS increase to the rotation. Whether you use it or not, the average DPS is almost the same. You can freely switch between them depending on whether or not stuff is going to die soon. It's basically about timing.

SE didn't have a problem with doing flare twice. They had a problem with the spell speed from umbral going onto 2 fire casts instead of only one. People were using this trick to do 2 flares faster than hard casts. It had nothing to do with the ability to cast flare twice in a row.

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Originally Posted by Hitome

You have to be careful with transpose/flare and low MS. You might find yourself stuck in astral fire 3 after your transpose failed because you were mashing it during your flare cast. heh

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Yes. From my experience, if you're already in AF3 when you cast Flare, then you can safely Transpose immediately without a problem. However, if you're in UI3 when you cast Flare and immediately Transpose, you'll be stuck in AF3.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

I have to ask, but why are you guys putting the fire II in-between the double flare?

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Personally, I do it because it's slightly more DPS. As O-Deka-K posted, it's 58.8N PPS vs 58.5N PPS. In turn 4, where you're using it on 6 enemies at a time that's 352.8 PPS vs 351 PPS. When translated to actual DPS... It's still just as insigificant. I just like to know I'm squeezing out that little bit extra, though I do leave out the Fire II if the Flare will be enough damage for the kill.

That said, the Flare -> Flare rotation will actually beat out the Flare -> Fire II -> Flare rotation in the event that you're doing AOE for an entire minute; being 3 seconds shorter adds up. I don't know any current content that you should be doing an AOE rotation on that would live that long, though.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

Fire III -> astral fire III - flare - transpose - wait 2 seconds on first mana tick - flare - flare - transpose - wait 2 seconds on first mana tick - flare - flare - transpose etc.

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It's a bit wasteful to start out like that. Starting with Fire III -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Flare will give you higher DPS. It's only good as an opener, though, as the downtime required to have MP to repeat it brings the DPS down below doing a no Blizzard rotation. For Turn 4 I always do this:

Fire III -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Flare -> Transpose -> Flare -> Fire II -> Flare -> Transpose -> Flare -> Flare

I'll use Swiftcast on an AF3 Flare when it's off cooldown. Depending on how other DPS is doing, I'll add in Convert/Ether as needed. I try to save Convert/item cooldown for more damage on Dreadnought if I can.

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Originally Posted by O-Deka-K

Yes. From my experience, if you're already in AF3 when you cast Flare, then you can safely Transpose immediately without a problem. However, if you're in UI3 when you cast Flare and immediately Transpose, you'll be stuck in AF3.

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Yeah, it seems much safer now than I recall.

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

That said, the Flare -> Flare rotation will actually beat out the Flare -> Fire II -> Flare rotation in the event that you're doing AOE for an entire minute; being 3 seconds shorter adds up.

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This doesn't make sense to me. What does being 3 seconds shorter have anything to do with it?

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

It's a bit wasteful to start out like that. Starting with Fire III -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Flare will give you higher DPS.

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I've been thinking about this. I have been doing exactly that until now, but I don't think it's right anymore.

Edit: I'm wrong. More Fire 2's is better.

I did previously say that adding more Fire 2's give you more PPS (potency per second) for 3 or more targets. That was true for every rotation that I could find or think of. However, the opener doesn't really count as a rotation, because you can't repeat it (there's no mana regeneration at all).

Since you're effectively removing the entire Umbral phase, the PPS for this opener is much higher than any normal rotation. In this case, adding more Fire 2's will actually lower the PPS:

AoE Openers, if you start from no UI/AF buff:
Flare: (260N) / 4.0 = 65N PPS
F3-Flare: (468N + 220) / 7.5 = 62.4N + 29.3 PPS <-- Best!
F3-F2-Flare: (648N + 220) / 10.5 = 61.7N + 21.0 PPS
F3-F2-F2-Flare: (828N + 220) / 13.5 = 61.3N + 16.3 PPS
F3-F2-F2-F2-Flare: (1008N + 220) / 16.5 = 61.1N + 13.3 PPS <-- Best!

Edit: The last opener is best because it is longer while still having higher PPS than the regular rotation.

Just starting with Flare may look like the best opener, but it isn't. It only catches up in PPS for 12 targets or more. However, if you're already in AF3 at the start of the fight (and have over 4s left on it), then opening with Flare would be the highest damage.

As always, Swiftcast Flare will increase this, but I generally don't open with it. Gotta give the tank a little breathing space.

It's important to consider the amount of time over which you're getting that higher PPS, though; getting higher PPS for a lesser amount of time may result in overall less potency dealt.

Flare -> (Transpose -> Flare -> Flare) repeat
65N PPS for 4s, then 58.5N PPS
(65N)4 = 260N
@20s: 260N + 58.5N(16) = 1196N
@30s: 260N + 58.5N(26) = 1781N
@40s: 260N + 58.5N(36) = 2366N

Fire III -> Flare -> (Transpose -> Flare -> Flare) repeat
62.4N + 29.3 PPS for 7.5s, then 58.5N PPS
(62.4N + 29.3)7.5 = 220 + 468N
@20s: 220 + 468N + 58.5N(12.5) = 220 + 1199.25N
@30s: 220 + 468N + 58.5N(22.5) = 220 + 1784.25N
@40s: 220 + 468N + 58.5N(32.5) = 220 + 2369.25N

Fire III -> Fire II -> Flare -> (Transpose -> Flare -> Flare) repeat
61.7N + 21.0 PPS for 10.5s, then 58.5N PPS
(61.7N + 21.0)10.5 = 220 + 648N
@20s: 220 + 648N + 58.5N(9.5) = 220 + 1203.75N
@30s: 220 + 648N + 58.5N(19.5) = 220 + 1788.75N
@40s: 220 + 648N + 58.5N(29.5) = 220 + 2373.75N

Fire III -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Flare -> (Transpose -> Flare -> Flare) repeat
61.3N + 16.3 PPS for 13.5s, then 58.5N PPS
(61.3N + 16.3)13.5 = 220 + 828N
@20s: 220 + 828N + 58.5N(6.5) = 220 + 1208.25N
@30s: 220 + 828N + 58.5N(16.5) = 220 + 1793.25N
@40s: 220 + 828N + 58.5N(26.5) = 220 + 2378.25N

Fire III -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Flare -> (Transpose -> Flare -> Flare) repeat
61.1N + 13.3 PPS for 16.5s, then 58.5N PPS
(61.1N + 13.3)16.5 = 220 + 1008N
@20s: 220 + 1008N + 58.5N(3.5) = 220 + 1212.75N
@30s: 220 + 1008N + 58.5N(13.5) = 220 + 1797.75N
@40s: 220 + 1008N + 58.5N(23.5) = 220 + 2382.75N

Each Fire II before the Flare results in 4.5N more potency dealt.

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Originally Posted by O-Deka-K

This doesn't make sense to me. What does being 3 seconds shorter have anything to do with it?

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Nothing; you're right. Was mixing up two different concepts.