How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

I've only recently started playing with dragoon and noticed following the opener listed here that I consistently clip chaos thrust by at least 7 seconds. Is this normal? I'm talking through a 3 minute parse, not just on opener.

It is normal. Chaos Thrust's duration was designed for a different rotation, and with the forced disconnects that are commonplace in Heavensward encounters, you will likely come to appreciate the leeway anyhow.

Quick question : http://fr.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/8842820/

This is my gear, and I will soon replace my weapon with the NidEX weapon or the 240 anima, but my skillspeed will drop at 560~, is it viable ? Or should I meld some SS materia to compensate ? (currently on A6S so can't have anything but accessories).

I noticed lately during my rotation (660 SS) that by the time IR is almost up for a second time, I'm up to IDC. The problem is, when I reach Chaos Thrust, I still have 5s on IR. This means both CT and Phlebotomize will miss out on IR. Do I just go through anyway? I know holding abilities for a buff is generally frowned upon, but would this be remedied if I lower my SS a bit?

You should try to lower your SS I think.

We're going to use a simplified potency-per-second (pps) model for this post; specific time periods are mathematically a different problem, and while cooldown usage optimization within a time period is technically a more difficult problem combinatorially, it's usually easier in practice since you only get so many uses per fight so you can basically look at the timeline and think, "hey, we can stack all these together at T-time and never be penalized for it".

Think of it this (overly simplified) way: if IR is a 5% buff for 7 GCDs (we're trying to stack the deck in favor of delaying, sometimes it's really only going to be 6), then it is worth (150+200+360+290+170+180+220)*.05 = 78.5 potency before buffs in the worst case, (200+360+290+170+180+220+530)*.05 = 97.5 delaying by one GCD, or (290+170+180+220+530+290+410)*.05 = 104.5 potency delaying by three GCDs.

That's 78.5/60 = +1.30833333 pps, 97.5/62.4 = +1.5625 pps, and 104.5/67.2 = +1.55505952 pps. So just one looks like a gain at first glance, right?

But we should also consider oGCDs that periodically sync with IR and auto-attacks. That's what gets you into trouble. We need to not lose 1.5625 - 1.30833333 = 0.25416667 PPS in the process!

So two alternative options for Leg Sweep, (130*2 + 130*1.05)/60 = 6.60833333 pps normally, (130*2 + 136.5)/62.4 = 6.35416667 delayed for one GCD, or 130*3/60 = 6.5 most of the times starting somewhere down the line. So we'll call that 6.60833333 - 6.5 = 0.10833333 pps lost... eventually. Yes, you might lap IR sometime after that, but I don't wanna think about it.

Next we consider IR synced with Power Surge + Jump, (260*1.5*1.05 + 260)/60 = 11.1583333 pps normally. The alternatives are to stretch to (260*1.5*1.05 + 260)/62.4 = 10.7291667 pps or lose IR for (260*1.5 + 260)/60 = 10.8333333. So, 11.1583333 - 10.8333333 = 0.325 pps lost once synchronization is lost.

Therefore, between just those, we have lost 0.325 + 0.10833333 = 0.43333333 pps if we let IR slide too far. I think that's conclusive enough. It'd take a while, and realistically you get to re-sync after forced downtimes in most fights, but stuff like this is why we don't hold stuff unless we have to.

What was that thing about a 900 sks GS rotation? Is it just the extra GS after the 2nd Impulse combo? Or does it occur more often? Also is it worth it, considering it ruins all CD timings.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I noticed lately during my rotation (660 SS) that by the time IR is almost up for a second time, I'm up to IDC. The problem is, when I reach Chaos Thrust, I still have 5s on IR. This means both CT and Phlebotomize will miss out on IR. Do I just go through anyway? I know holding abilities for a buff is generally frowned upon, but would this be remedied if I lower my SS a bit?

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you must be popping IR in the wrong place during the opener, ive ran with over 700 ss and never had this issue

Is there a rule of thumb for consistently doing two geirskoguls per blood for blood? The picture on the first page is helpful for my opener but once into the middle of the fight, I tend to lose track of which botd cycle I'm on. I'm trying to find a way to glance at my timers and then decide what to do from there. Any tips are appreciated

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Originally Posted by Journeyz

Is there a rule of thumb for consistently doing two geirskoguls per blood for blood? The picture on the first page is helpful for my opener but once into the middle of the fight, I tend to lose track of which botd cycle I'm on. I'm trying to find a way to glance at my timers and then decide what to do from there. Any tips are appreciated

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If you can stack BoTD to 30 sec and the BfB is less than 8 sec away, this is a good timing to setup the double Geirskogul under BfB

Hey Guys,

is anyone of you guys using the way Jump works against knockbacks?

It happend to me a few times in a8s that I miss a 4th-positional because of the vortexer-knockback in p2 because I have to move to the wall, but I'm getting jump up shortly before the knockback and was wondering how hard the timing would be to dodge the knockback with jump. Anyone got experience with this and can give a few pointers before I start screwing with my static by trying it out (and failing)? xD

Cheers

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Originally Posted by xSirius

Hey Guys,

is anyone of you guys using the way Jump works against knockbacks?

It happend to me a few times in a8s that I miss a 4th-positional because of the vortexer-knockback in p2 because I have to move to the wall, but I'm getting jump up shortly before the knockback and was wondering how hard the timing would be to dodge the knockback with jump. Anyone got experience with this and can give a few pointers before I start screwing with my static by trying it out (and failing)? xD

Cheers

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Ahhh the jump cheese. This was golden in A3S, the only problem is its mildly related to latency and the polsitional update system.

Guess I'll just have to try it out then and safe my SSD for the worst case^^

Is there a PvP Dragoon guide? I keep getting rekt. :(

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Originally Posted by MiryaZan

Just wondering if anyone could share their hotbar layouts and tips?

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My personal, and objectively superior setup. /sarcasm
Honestly just apply logic and play with the setup that suits and makes sense to you. I try to have my bars in a pattern that somewhat makes sense but I also have a lot of exceptions to that rule due to nothing else but personal preference for reasons I can't explain. I have my main combos bound to 1234 and shift + 1234 because those are the abilities that get used most often. E is for FaC/Wheel because it makes sense to me to have them on the same button. Q is for Life Surge and potion because. Most OGCDs I have on my mouse (F# keys in the picture) because most movement happens between GCDs and then I can use all of my left hand for movement. Buffs are also on mouse + Shift. Lastly, things that are on 123+Alt are things that don't get used often (relatively) and I didn't find any other place for.

This probably doesn't help you or anyone else at all, but the point is that you should just do you. There is no hotbar BiS.

Is the advanced opener on the first page still good?
H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [IR+BOTD] -> DI -> [DRAC-POT] -> CT -> [PS+ LEGS] -> 4TH -> [JUMP] -> P -> [SSD] -> TT -> [DFD] -> VP -> [LIFES + GK] -> FT -> 4TH -> Repeat

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Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Is the advanced opener on the first page still good?
H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [IR+BOTD] -> DI -> [DRAC-POT] -> CT -> [PS+ LEGS] -> 4TH -> [JUMP] -> P -> [SSD] -> TT -> [DFD] -> VP -> [LIFES + GK] -> FT -> 4TH -> Repeat

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It hasnt been updated but there is a slight change in the opener, your big buffs have swapped round a little
H > [BL+IR] > ID > [BOTD+B4B] > rest is the same

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Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Is the advanced opener on the first page still good?
H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [IR+BOTD] -> DI -> [DRAC-POT] -> CT -> [PS+ LEGS] -> 4TH -> [JUMP] -> P -> [SSD] -> TT -> [DFD] -> VP -> [LIFES + GK] -> FT -> 4TH -> Repeat

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Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: There are openers that are a little more optimized for opener DPS and you may have to adjust your opener slightly in a given encounter, but yes that opener still works mighty fine. If I recall correctly swapping IR and B4b in that opener gives you slightly more PPS since your B4b will extend to HT which is more potency than ID.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but while leveling to 60, does it make sense to skip wheeling thrust quest at 58? It seems to me that the skill is simply bad, because it does identical damage to fang&claw, but once you get it, whether you get fang&claw or wheeling thrust becomes a coin toss and you must adjust your positioning after each coin toss. Before you get wheeling thrust, you get fang&claw 100% of the time, meaning you don't have to reposition due to any coin toss.

Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?

If not, I am actually thinking about skipping both level 58 and 60 skill quests because I don't want to suffer wheeling thrust.

Dude, you need gierskogul lol

You can skip the lv 58 quest until you reach 60, but the lv 60 skill is important so you'll still have to do the lv 58 quest later.

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Originally Posted by MikeWW

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but while leveling to 60, does it make sense to skip wheeling thrust quest at 58? It seems to me that the skill is simply bad, because it does identical damage to fang&claw, but once you get it, whether you get fang&claw or wheeling thrust becomes a coin toss and you must adjust your positioning after each coin toss. Before you get wheeling thrust, you get fang&claw 100% of the time, meaning you don't have to reposition due to any coin toss.

Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?

If not, I am actually thinking about skipping both level 58 and 60 skill quests because I don't want to suffer wheeling thrust.

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Its really easy to get used to and makes the rotation alot more fun so might aswel get it now and practice, thats what dummies are for.
you will only get abuse from people in DF and i wouldnt wish that on anyone

Was still hoping for a fix for the Wheeling Thrust & Fang and Claw procs..I mean randomness..I mean 50/50 chance..I mean @5#$^%&$%!^ probability of it proc'ing on the flank or the rear...

SE! Y DEW DIS?!

fixplzkthxbai

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Originally Posted by MikeWW

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but while leveling to 60, does it make sense to skip wheeling thrust quest at 58? It seems to me that the skill is simply bad, because it does identical damage to fang&claw, but once you get it, whether you get fang&claw or wheeling thrust becomes a coin toss and you must adjust your positioning after each coin toss. Before you get wheeling thrust, you get fang&claw 100% of the time, meaning you don't have to reposition due to any coin toss.

Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?


If not, I am actually thinking about skipping both level 58 and 60 skill quests because I don't want to suffer wheeling thrust.

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Wait..wut? Dude..do the quests, get the skills, and practice..practice..practice. Learn the rotation on a practice dummy, then practice some more in Stone,Sky,Sea, practice in dungeons, raids, trials... But do the quests and get the skills.

RIP our Alex Weapon and Sophia weapon lol

So what are you guys planning on getting? And what is bis atm since ariyala isn't updated? Dervy's ghost respond pls

Same here. Bit surprised by the Alex and Sophia Weapon...

I'll wait for experienced DRG to share their thought about what parts we should get first or atleast what's going to help before trying to take down the last floors of Alex (savage).

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Originally Posted by BalmungAzuresky

I'll wait for experienced DRG to share their thought about what parts we should get first or atleast what's going to help before trying to take down the last floors of Alex (savage).

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Put on gear with lots of Strength. That seems to help! :3

(I will probably get around to it if nobody beats me to the punch, but it's a lot of gruntwork and there is raiding to git dun)

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Originally Posted by TenZer0

Was still hoping for a fix for the Wheeling Thrust & Fang and Claw procs..I mean randomness..I mean 50/50 chance..I mean @5#$^%&$%!^ probability of it proc'ing on the flank or the rear...

SE! Y DEW DIS?!

fixplzkthxbai

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You can't fix what isn't broken to begin with. This discussion has been had a 100 times.

Hey guys,

did any of you try to create a BIS-List? I came up with this in a few minutes: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VMSD
Aiming for about 740-750 accuracy (expecting a12s to be somewhere in this figure) and trying to get my sks to ~600 since this is the sks I'm most commfortable with for raiding.

Still I'm not really happy with it... would love to have more crit and I couldn't really make the 275 weapon work without dropping crit to ~800...

I'm curious to what you guys are thinking :)

Cheers,
Sirius

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Originally Posted by Sentinillia

You can't fix what isn't broken to begin with. This discussion has been had a 100 times.

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I Can Still Dream! lol ; ;

Currently testing accuracy cap on SSS dummies, they dont seem to have risen hardly. Estimating around 710-720, provided the dummies are accurate.

heres a rough BIS i quickly made http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VNBV
will make a better one once acc caps and stat weights are released
will post any other info i can come up with

I might try to work towards something like this... http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VOAB
With the Priestly Omelette HQ the ACC will push up to 737ish in case it gets discovered the ACC req is higher than 720, but there is a ACC materia or two that can be switched to something else if we discover that 720 really is the max cap.

I did 2 food durations on my monk at 708 acc on the a12s dummy from the front and had no misses. Its possible they didnt change it all or the acc caps that are on the dummies are completely irrelevant to the actual caps of the savage fights

Don't know if this is true or not, but apparently the accuracy cap for A12S is the same as A8S from what I heard (700 front) based on SSS. As I didn't do the testing myself, don't take my word for it. But I guess if it's true, then I guess the build I'll be working on would be something like this? http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VOR9

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Originally Posted by TunaBass

Don't know if this is true or not, but apparently the accuracy cap for A12S is the same as A8S from what I heard (700 front) based on SSS. As I didn't do the testing myself, don't take my word for it. But I guess if it's true, then I guess the build I'll be working on would be something like this? http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VOR9

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Yea thats starting to look like its the case, updated the set i posted earlier to reflect that http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VOX0

What do you guys think I should meld to crafed wep and pants?

this is my gear atm http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/5733472/

Ok so I've been looking at these DRG BiS things for a couple hours and I've tried my hands at making my own. Total weighted stats turns out being 3105.3 on this BiS and is the best that I've seen yet. Yeah it only beats the current best by like 1 point but w/e more damage. Link.

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Originally Posted by JonaBradburry

Ok so I've been looking at these DRG BiS things for a couple hours and I've tried my hands at making my own. Total weighted stats turns out being 3105.3 on this BiS and is the best that I've seen yet. Yeah it only beats the current best by like 1 point but w/e more damage. Link.

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Can't you switch out the det V with Acc V on head and replace the acc V with Crit V on hands?
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/VPC3

Dropping in, a friend of mine let me know that the accuracy caps in the actual fights aren't much higher, so the dummies are most likely accurate.