Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

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Originally Posted by ispano

Except they will likely never be the best weapon. And he's also likely correct, they will make previous steps "easier" at some point.

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and which source did u get both comment from? unless it is an official source, any speculation or rumor are just theory crafted explanation.

It seems like 2.25 fixing the issue on Mirror for PLD and WHM but no words on ATMA. they are reading but they are avoiding the issue.. this just go from bad to worst

So, I haven't the time to read through 120 pages of post. I'll ask the community a question.
Part 1, has a dev responded to this?
Part 2, what page was the response on (if there was one)?

Thanks in advance

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Originally Posted by waldo

So, I haven't the time to read through 120 pages of post. I'll ask the community a question.
Part 1, has a dev responded to this?
Part 2, what page was the response on (if there was one)?

Thanks in advance

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I believe the answer to both is no.

Gonna post this here in this thread. It is a comment someone made in another thread on the same issue. I think it illustrates the problem that people have with this system.

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Originally Posted by Altena

People just hate FATEs. It wouldn't be such an issue for a lot of people if FATEs were actually fun. (If you ever played GW2 - their open world events were actually pretty interesting).
I don't think there is an issue with the weapon tiers. Nor do I think the "atma" part of the questline (FATE grinding) shouldn't involve some time commitment - however it's the type of time commitment a lot of people have a problem with.

The biggest issue I have with the atma system is simply that it is solely based on RNG. You can have one person farming one atma for 5 minutes and another farming for 5 hours. On top of that, there is no progression if you didn't get it from the previous FATE. You can be farming for 5 hours and be in no better position then you were when you started. Is it fair for the person who farmed for 5 hours? Not at all. Is his weapon any more special then the "lucky" soul who walked into the zone and got it off the first FATE? Again, nope.. That is the biggest issue in my opinion. The grind is not a very fair one.

There is good RNG and bad RNG.
Good RNG (from a player perspective) is something like how the coil or primal drops work. At least one person is guaranteed a reward at the end of the duty. It may not be the item any of you want - but SOMETHING is guaranteed.
Bad RNG is something like the current atma system - you either get it or you don't. There is also no way to increase those odds by something you do as a player, so one person can be extremely lucky, and another extremely unlucky.

The first handful of people on the server that were walking around with atmas weren't praised because they beat content, they were simply thought of as being "lucky".

This isn't really an ideal way to gate content from a player's perspective. Have us run through 12 different dungeons solo, and beat some boss at the end..
Or reverse the order (make that the Atma > Animus path), and have the current book system the way people obtain Atmas. (Yes including the myth grind).

In fact, although the Animus takes a lot of myth to get, and an hour or so running around filling out a book on 9 different occasions, it is actually a much nicer path - as there is no RNG element.

So basically what I am saying is I personally don't have an issue with the weapon tiers (even though the Animus takes more time then most), the issue I have is purely the RNG element of obtaining your Atma weapon.

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Originally Posted by waldo

So, I haven't the time to read through 120 pages of post. I'll ask the community a question.
Part 1, has a dev responded to this?
Part 2, what page was the response on (if there was one)?

Thanks in advance

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They have responded on this thread but only to say that they will use this thread for feedback. Sadly i can not remember which page it was.

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Originally Posted by Remus

They have responded on this thread but only to say that they will use this thread for feedback. Sadly i can not remember which page it was.

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nope they have never responded to this thread. they only combine the thread from multiple thread and tell us so.. i don't think that is considered as a reply.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I believe the answer to both is no.

Gonna post this here in this thread. It is a comment someone made in another thread on the same issue. I think it illustrates the problem that people have with this system.

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your quote from altena is the key point of this thread.. altho not everyone hate FATES, its the RNG issue. some people take diablo 3 as comparison.. but what they don't realized is D3 is working toward controllable RNG.. Kadala (let u gamble) for a specific piece of gear with chance of legendary, enchanting allow u to gamble for a specific stats on the gear and crafting allow you to gamble for a good legendary.. all of such are controlled or regulated RNG.. which are all good RNG just like coil drop of 100% with chance. However fate is all or nothing.. hell it is 1/12 or nothing. no control no increase no progression nothing at all.

It's amazing to see someone use the phrase 'controlled RNG' so brazenly. I honestly was kind of happy to see a grind like this in a modern game, it was nostalgic. Though after reading all these forum posts I have to recant. Apparently what I enjoy is causing way too much pain and heart break. It's like I'm some kind of monster who can only get nourishment from poison and then some kids see me do it, eat the poison, and they die. Except the poison is just normal food and the kids dying are people flailing on an MMO forum.


EDIT: I don't really know what to say to people, I did about 700 FATEs (based on achievement numbers, not quite accurate) and got all 12. I had pretty big dry spells inside that grind. Though listening to people say "there's good RNG like how loot ALWAYS drops in coil" just blows my mind. That RNG can be just as frustrating as Atma, I remember waiting months for my shield in ICC. I just don't understand how you guys are so defeated by the lack of a little progress meter. If someone gave you free lottery tickets that had a 1% chance to win how many would you scratch off? You'd reach some kind of utilitarian curve where you have to evaluate the Jackpot versus your time spent scratching, but if it passes the test for the value of your time, then you'd certainly do it.

I mean you just look at the variety of people 'giving up' you have people calling it after 100 FATEs and others claiming they've been farming 3 weeks (straight through Easter I'm sure) the only issue here is how used players have gotten with taking themselves hostage to avoid adversity or resistance from a game. The only solution is to get the grind nerfed. Also yes it will be a nerf, since a linear grind is usually easier than a linear one. Yeah there will be those outliers who get everything done in 5 hours, but I feel like enough of your complaints are hinged on you being angry over people having an easier time at Atma than you.

Wouldn't it have been so cool if the fates were tiered, kinda like highbridge prelude, so on. Except stages that are 10 tiers long!
That'd be open world content with rewards people could use (atma given on last battle), the next tier wouldn't start unless the previous one was completed... Maybe even toss in a stipulation you'd have to get gold rating in the prior tier to join the next one.

That's the kind of fate I could get into!

I am at my wits end when it comes to Atma. Been trying since 2.2 came out and I STILL DON'T HAVE A SINGLE ATMA to show for it. I haven't done dallies, almost didn't cap my sol tomes twice and barely done much. Over 3 weeks and I'm still at square 1. Please tell how is this a grind? A grind I though had progression for your efforts? This is giving me nothing but rage.

Maybe Yoshi-P hates me or maybe SE hates me for not buying their LIghtning sequels and this is punishment who knows..

This is only getting worse because of the rising ilvl requirements in party finder groups and then people will expect you to have it then I wont be able to do content because they think since I didn't upgrade my weapon I want a carry. /rant

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Originally Posted by Worm

It's amazing to see someone use the phrase 'controlled RNG' so brazenly. I honestly was kind of happy to see a grind like this in a modern game, it was nostalgic. Though after reading all these forum posts I have to recant. Apparently what I enjoy is causing way too much pain and heart break. It's like I'm some kind of monster who can only get nourishment from poison and then some kids see me do it, eat the poison, and they die. Except the poison is just normal food and the kids dying are people flailing on an MMO forum.


EDIT: I don't really know what to say to people, I did about 700 FATEs (based on achievement numbers, not quite accurate) and got all 12. I had pretty big dry spells inside that grind. Though listening to people say "there's good RNG like how loot ALWAYS drops in coil" just blows my mind. That RNG can be just as frustrating as Atma, I remember waiting months for my shield in ICC. I just don't understand how you guys are so defeated by the lack of a little progress meter. If someone gave you free lottery tickets that had a 1% chance to win how many would you scratch off? You'd reach some kind of utilitarian curve where you have to evaluate the Jackpot versus your time spent scratching, but if it passes the test for the value of your time, then you'd certainly do it.

I mean you just look at the variety of people 'giving up' you have people calling it after 100 FATEs and others claiming they've been farming 3 weeks (straight through Easter I'm sure) the only issue here is how used players have gotten with taking themselves hostage to avoid adversity or resistance from a game. The only solution is to get the grind nerfed. Also yes it will be a nerf, since a linear grind is usually easier than a linear one. Yeah there will be those outliers who get everything done in 5 hours, but I feel like enough of your complaints are hinged on you being angry over people having an easier time at Atma than you.

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Here's the thing. A good grind is just that. A good grind. Something you have to put your nose to the "grind"stone (heh) for and actually dedicate a serious amount of time towards. Usually there's a start and end point with constant progression in between. Something like this just alienates a lot of players that want to find enjoyment in playing this game.

There is good RNG and there is bad RNG. Both the Coil Loot system (though the second half takes a nice approach towards a more manageable system) and the atma farming design are.. well just terrible in the first place. Good RNG is there to make the game interesting. Like, the spawn location of an enemy in a boss fight to keep people on their toes (t7).

Hell, you could actually have this system in this game and make it enjoyable for everybody. Here, think about this for example:

You get the quest to start your relic upgrade beyond zenith. You are first pushed through a series of trials to "raw" out your weapon and make it malleable for future upgrades. you complete them, but to finish the process you must participate in a fate (spawns every 15 minutes). And after this fate you unlock the book portion with everything as it currently is (though, maybe a tad bit lower on the myth necessity.. and maybe w/o the fate requirements in the books themselves). And that would upgrade you to your animus. What about the Atma you ask? Well there's that one required fate that you MUST participate in. And in this fate, an atma can drop during a certain time (in game) of the day in relation to it's zodiac sign. The drop rate of this atma is EXTREMELY small, much smaller than it is now. Nothing was ever mentioned in the patch notes about these pieces. Nobody even knows they exist. The Devs stay absolutely quiet (hehe, they seem to be good at that >.>).. The community starts looking at these few that are popping up. The community starts trying to work out the mystery of these pieces putting bits of information together as it's gathered throughout constant testing (the atma will probably drop at certain times of the day within the zones that they're a part of and maybe even within a couple of fates that seem a bit more designed to fit the idea). Here's the kicker. The atma don't upgrade anything. They're trade-able. They're much more rare than thought possible. What do they do? They unlock content for the COMMUNITY. Maybe a dungeon? Maybe a boss? But once it's unlocked for the world that the atma reside in (not sure how it should work that way, that's for the Lore people to work with) the dungeon will then be accessible for everybody who can meet the level requirements.

I'm extremely tired typing this up, so a lot of things will seem a bit off here and there. But something with mystery surrounding it and something to get the community aroused in the idea would have been a much better path of design rather than forcing mindless content in order to meet a requirement. The difference is:

1. Not required
2. Community driven and involved
3. Luck is not a factor when all pieces can be obtained by multiple people and traded throughout
4. After you start the Animus quest (hidden unlock really), you can obtain the atma with any class at any level. Making it actually worth your time to some degree.
5. Essentially does everything Sqeex was trying to do with the current implementation but with a different outlook from the community as it's not being forced down their throats.

And for the record. 72 hours 12 atma 2056 fates at a .58% drop rate. I spread it out through the first week of the patch and it turned me off of this game. I've currently un-subbed and am just playing until my subscription runs out unless there's a comment from the devs stating that they're going to do something about it. All I want is them to acknowledge, I haven't seen that yet and at almost a month since the patch release it's extremely pitiful that it's taken so long. There's no reason to keep your already dedicated paying customers in the shadows unsatisfied with a product they had such high hopes for. That's like punishment for liking a game, which goes against the concept of a game itself.

I haven't done Atmas hunting myself so I couldn't feel the pain you all are posting about.

So I read about the drop rate of Atma being 2% (I don't know where that person came up with that number but lets just base my suggestion on that number).

----------------Suggestion----------------
The initial drop rate of Atma = 2%, and drop rate increases by 0.5% with each "Gold rank" you get with Zenith weapon equipped. The drop rate increase up to a maximum of 20%. Think of it as a "hidden buff" parameter, duration wise, 30 minutes would be sufficient. Timer resets and the buff gets +1 when you achieve the "Gold Rank" in FATE.

So to lay it out:

Initial Drop Rate of Atma in FATE: 2%
Increment of Drop Rate per "Gold Rank" achieved: +0.5%
Duration of the Drop Rate buff (Reset upon getting another "Gold Rank"): 30mins
Maximum Drop Rate of Atma in FATE with said buff: 20%
Buff resets with Atma obtained / Exiting field (If they can not reset the buff upon logout that would be great, hate to get DC'd with stacking buff on)

If we start out with 2% in drop rate, we would have 36 fates to do before getting to the buff cap of 20%. Lets just say if there are actually people doing FATEs in that area and FATEs are popping at a decent speed, you spend 10mins doing it and 5mins to get to another FATE. 15mins for a "Gold Rank". You will be spending 9 hours grinding nothing but FATE in order to get to the max buff, longer if there's no one else in that area running FATEs with you. At least you would have an "increased" chance of getting an Atma since you have actually worked for 9hrs in one field.
----------------/Suggestion----------------

Well, after typing all those up I realized there will always be players going like "oh if the buff's only 30mins, does that mean I will actually have to sit in front of the computer for X amount of time? If I need to off a load/go out for dinner/go to school/catch a pokemon then I am screwed", well darn right you are. I just realized as a developer, you can never win over every player, so just stick with the current drop rate and system so they can keep complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Chromheart

I haven't done Atmas hunting myself so I couldn't feel the pain you all are posting about.

So I read about the drop rate of Atma being 2% (I don't know where that person came up with that number but lets just base my suggestion on that number).

----------------Suggestion----------------
The initial drop rate of Atma = 2%, and drop rate increases by 0.5% with each "Gold rank" you get with Zenith weapon equipped. The drop rate increase up to a maximum of 20%. Think of it as a "hidden buff" parameter, duration wise, 30 minutes would be sufficient. Timer resets and the buff gets +1 when you achieve the "Gold Rank" in FATE.

So to lay it out:

Initial Drop Rate of Atma in FATE: 2%
Increment of Drop Rate per "Gold Rank" achieved: +0.5%
Duration of the Drop Rate buff (Reset upon getting another "Gold Rank"): 30mins
Maximum Drop Rate of Atma in FATE with said buff: 20%
Buff resets with Atma obtained / Exiting field (If they can not reset the buff upon logout that would be great, hate to get DC'd with stacking buff on)

If we start out with 2% in drop rate, we would have 36 fates to do before getting to the buff cap of 20%. Lets just say if there are actually people doing FATEs in that area and FATEs are popping at a decent speed, you spend 10mins doing it and 5mins to get to another FATE. 15mins for a "Gold Rank". You will be spending 9 hours grinding nothing but FATE in order to get to the max buff, longer if there's no one else in that area running FATEs with you. At least you would have an "increased" chance of getting an Atma since you have actually worked for 9hrs in one field.
----------------/Suggestion----------------

Well, after typing all those up I realized there will always be players going like "oh if the buff's only 30mins, does that mean I will actually have to sit in front of the computer for X amount of time? If I need to off a load/go out for dinner/go to school/catch a pokemon then I am screwed", well darn right you are. I just realized as a developer, you can never win over every player, so just stick with the current drop rate and system so they can keep complaining about it.

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However that is a good control system. we are given a chance to get better drop rate with dedication.. no 1 to blame but the player.. with current system.. pure RNG is.. just bad

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Originally Posted by ArcFinix

and which source did u get both comment from? unless it is an official source, any speculation or rumor are just theory crafted explanation.

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From a Live Letter where Yoshi said the best weapons would come from Coil and similar. Relic has its place and on top is not likely it. The only way you'd likely see Relics as the best is if they were gated behind the hardest raid/whatever at the time.

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Originally Posted by ispano

From a Live Letter where Yoshi said the best weapons would come from Coil and similar. Relic has its place and on top is not likely it. The only way you'd likely see Relics as the best is if they were gated behind the hardest raid/whatever at the time.

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I believe yoshi said it will not be top for the patch but will eventally become the best in future

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Originally Posted by ispano

From a Live Letter where Yoshi said the best weapons would come from Coil and similar. Relic has its place and on top is not likely it. The only way you'd likely see Relics as the best is if they were gated behind the hardest raid/whatever at the time.

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I absolutely hate the mentality of the developers about this shown in comments like that because it keeps reinforcing the mentality in the userbase that Coil gear should be "the best".



Why? Why can't we have tiered endgame gear that doesn't revolve around power level bullshit and instead is just explicitly oriented around different kinds of content? Is it too much to ask that we do something that doesn't keep feeding the player base's insatiable need to obtain whatever item is considered "best" no matter what it takes and drive the entire game into the ground trying to get it? Wouldn't it be better for the game on the whole if, say, the content the devs force you into to prepare and gear up for particular stretches of the endgame environment, such as Coil or Crystal Tower or Primals or Dungeons, reflected on the style of gameplay found in those particular instances? Wouldn't that allow the game on the whole more freedom to be flexible with its content instead of expecting every single player to enjoy the same stuff? Especially when we clearly don't?

^^This x 1000. Developers confirm they will continue with one dimensional itemization and lack the ability to create a diverse and interesting item table for players to enjoy.

Enjoy the linear ilevel train.

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Originally Posted by Chromheart

snip

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I have seen other people suggest similar things. Those people have suggested increasing the drop rate by .5%, assuming a 1% initial start, for every fate you complete until you get it. No gold requirement. To me, this seems to be the better option of these 2 suggestions, in my opinion, because 1) with all the people zerging the fates a gold requirement may be tough on people, and 2) in the long term, you can say to people that if you keep at it, you will eventually get it.

Now, I have also seen people suggest that making it something like, do 50 fates in x area to get your atma. Not a bad idea. You would still have the grind portion, for the players that like that sort of thing, and you would have a visual progression for the players that don't.

They'll address the poor excuse of end game "content" with the drop rates and methods to obtain Atma around the time they do something about RMT spam.

I don't absolutely hate the atma quest I just find it incredibly boring. Out of the 6 Atma's I have, I seem to be averaging 1 to 1.5 hours per Atma. But it's so life suckingly boring xD I liked the original relic quest where you did dhorme chimera, hydra and the primals. More special bosses like that would have been great. Gathering the Atma's is boring and the second part seems like a chore (though I still prefer it over mindless FATEs).

I would have liked it better if we didn't have to play on a lvl 50 with the zenith equipped. I don't like grinding but at least it would have been more convenient since you have to have a zenith anyways to accept the quest. That way they can keep the Atma quest chain locked to zenith bearers only like they want and you could do something with FATEs that at least felt like progress...like leveling another character while you wait for the drops. So instead I just stopped caring and went to level other classes lawl I'll come back to it whenever.

Edit: Edited to clarify my last paragraph.

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Originally Posted by SublimeIbanez

There is good RNG and there is bad RNG.

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I saw someone else saying this and I just don't agree. There's nothing wrong with a low droprate item, especially when it's very easy to farm. All I see are a bunch of people who beat themselves up on a grind they really didn't have to do. How many times have you quit and resubbed at this point? It just seems like this is a personal philosophy for the lot of you a quiet hyperbolic life as it were.

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Originally Posted by Shirana

I liked the original relic quest where you did dhorme chimera, hydra and the primals.

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The original relic quest was in 1.0 and it was a more fun grind imo. You started with hamlets which were instances. One item that everyone needed dropped each run if certain conditions were met. Most ppl ran with a tank, two healers, dps, crafters and gatherers. You had to spam that alot because, if i remember right, you needed 15 total items. And only one item per run dropped, if conditions were met.

Then you ran dungeon speed runs, killed a bunch of beastmen for coins and finally killed ifrit X.

I don't mind this relic quest too much. It is similar and much less demanding for other players to help you.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

The original relic quest was in 1.0 and it was a more fun grind imo. You started with hamlets which were instances. One item that everyone needed dropped each run if certain conditions were met. Most ppl ran with a tank, two healers, dps, crafters and gatherers. You had to spam that alot because, if i remember right, you needed 15 total items. And only one item per run dropped, if conditions were met.

Then you ran dungeon speed runs, killed a bunch of beastmen for coins and finally killed ifrit X.

I don't mind this relic quest too much. It is similar and much less demanding for other players to help you.

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Oh well I meant the one we have now where you get the unfinished relic and "upgrade" it to the relic through bosses xD
And I wouldn't mind it, sounds like fun *-* I find even the low level dungeons more fun than FATEs anyways. The time spent doesn't bother me much I just want it to be entertaining. Took me 3 weeks to get through the primals for example and they were fun xD
except Titan.
I will never like Titan >.>
I joined in 2.1 though so I have no idea what 1.0 was like lawl

Nom comic.

http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/...42214_atma.png

Yeah it'd be nice if dropped Bronze-Gold, hell even if getting a different level would increase the drop rate. Doesn't even have to be that much.
Bronze .05-1.%
Silver - 1%-1.5%
Gold - 1.5%-2%

Or something.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2054173

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Patch 2.25 will focus on additions and adjustments to the Wolves' Den, as well as a new system involving materia.

I know some of our players have been looking forward to the continuation of the Zodiac Weapons quests that I mentioned in the recent letter LIVE, but the release of these new quests has been postponed. Our reasoning for this decision is, in brief:
Many players still have yet to obtain an Animus weapon.
We would like to incorporate feedback regarding the difficulty of the Zodiac Weapon quests.
We are working to increase the number of locations where materials for the next upgrade can be obtained.
I apologize for the delay, but those of you looking to obtain the power of "Novus" will be able to do so in patch 2.28, scheduled to release in May.

Where Animus upgrades focused heavily on the accumulation of Allagan tomestones of mythology, Novus upgrades will revolve around the use of sphere scrolls. We are working to ensure that the required materials can be obtained through various means, so we ask that you wait just a little longer until everything is properly balanced.

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Finally a reply on the subject.. A few weeks late. But it's here.

Very good news that they delay the 2nd upgrade and that they will make adjustments to their system. But what about the first upgrade from Zenith to Animus? I still would like to do it for more than one class but if the Atma and rare FATE parts remain how they are now, this is most likely never going to happen. Not sure if they only reconsider the upgrade from Animus to Novus or if the entire quest line will be rebalanced, starting from Zenith.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

Very good news that they delay the 2nd upgrade and that they will make adjustments to their system. But what about the first upgrade from Zenith to Animus? I still would like to do it for more than one class but if the Atma and rare FATE parts remain how they are now, this is most likely never going to happen. Not sure if they only reconsider the upgrade from Animus to Novus or if the entire quest line will be rebalanced, starting from Zenith.

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• Many players still have yet to obtain an Animus weapon.
• We would like to incorporate feedback regarding the difficulty of the Zodiac Weapon quests.

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That tells me that it's for existing and future quests...

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

That tells me that it's for existing and future quests...

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It's ok, no one ever really pays attention to Yoshi-P, they've learned only to complain on reaction.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

It's ok, no one ever really pays attention to Yoshi-P, they've learned only to complain on reaction.

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Oh you mean like most political threads on the internet :D

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2054173


Finally a reply on the subject.. A few weeks late. But it's here.

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I don't know if "difficulty" is the right word to use. But I'm glad they're finally doing/saying something.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Finally a reply on the subject.. A few weeks late. But it's here.

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I'd rather have the late reply than a rushed hotfix/patch or standard unneeded reply that they are looking into it, when they are. So they have the time to go through the collected data and feedback reports and make an informed decision on the matter.

Delaying the next phase for Novus is a smart call, especially when it sounded like a bottleneck in the letter.

However, we are not sure of what they are planning to do with the current system. will they increase drop? do something else about it? tell us it is as intended?

But again.. at lease they responded

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

That tells me that it's for existing and future quests...

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That quote, to me, looks like is just in reference to the new parts of the quest. The incorporation of the feedback looked like it was listed as a reason for this part:

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I know some of our players have been looking forward to the continuation of the Zodiac Weapons quests that I mentioned in the recent letter LIVE, but the release of these new quests has been postponed. Our reasoning for this decision is, in brief:

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That makes no mention of looking at or changing the existing quests. I'm not saying they won't do so (and I'd love to hear they are increasing drop rate or adding alternative methods of obtaining atma) but that bit of text really makes no reference to changes in the current quests only factors for why they are delaying the new ones.

They didn't say they will increase the drop rate so there is nothing to be hopeful about.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

They didn't say they will increase the drop rate so there is nothing to be hopeful about.

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^ This
I for one will still probably not even have the weapon by then so to the reply from what the producer said, no i will not look forward to the continuation of Zodiak if i cannot even get the weapon

that reply is just a way to give themselves more time to do whatever they want.. a reply that is non existence is the most we can say to what yoshi said.

nothing can be confirmed until we see 2.25 patch note

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Originally Posted by ArcFinix

nothing can be confirmed until we see 2.25 patch note

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... which basically contains this:

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The color of the following item icons has been changed to improve visibility:
Atma of the Maiden / Atma of the Scorpion / Atma of the Water-bearer / Atma of the Goat / Atma of the Bull / Atma of the Ram / Atma of the Twins / Atma of the Lion / Atma of the Fish / Atma of the Archer / Atma of the Scales / Atma of the Crab

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Improve... visibility?!!
Are u kidding me?! XD
You should improve drop rate, not visbility. We are not blind, just pissed off. Thank you.

woot i have 8 atma! i'm almost there. just 100 more atma to go to finish all my jobs! fun stuff

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Originally Posted by Marylain

... which basically contains this:



Improve... visibility?!!
Are u kidding me?! XD
You should improve drop rate, not visbility. We are not blind, just pissed off. Thank you.

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seriously? nothing about atma? why will i bother with the next part of the quest if i am stuck at atma? SE said themselves that alot of us do not have atma or even animus.. so what action did they take to fix this? NOTHING!