Review of 6.3 Story Content

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Likewise. However if Hiroi messes up the ending to Pandaemonium in 6.4 then I will flat out refuse to play a 7.0 written by him. I've already been burned enough by Ishikawa's bait and switch, I'll not be going through that again anytime soon. This is the first time in a decade when I've even had to consider not buying the next expansion, all of it due to how badly Endwalker set multiple aspects of the game on fire with story just being one of many key failings that no one seems willing to address.

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Many people, like the above poster, want you to think that you have to and there’s no choice. To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now. People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on. Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down. We have to consume this particular product because other people have made it a part of their personality.

Unfortunately for them, regular consumers aren’t turned on by this constant circlejerk. Given that FFXIV isn’t even the third most-played MMO, there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers. Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?

The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Likewise. However if Hiroi messes up the ending to Pandaemonium in 6.4 then I will flat out refuse to play a 7.0 written by him.

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See ya when 7.0 drops :D

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now.

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When was this said??

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on.

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This is true for alot of people. If anybody disagrees, thats your opinion.
Every opinion is valid regardless if most people agree or disagree with it.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down.

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Not True, I am one of many people who have agreed and even had Nuanced opinions about FFXIV and some of its criticisms.
Ive even taken OPs side once or twice.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers.

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Same could be said about WoW, Runescape, Guildwars or....just about any game ever...so....

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?
The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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Im guessing you really just dont like Post-Endwalker lol
So, if you arnt engaged and dont like whats happening right now, fine. Thats ok. (once again proving you wrong about shooting down criticism)
Do keep in mind though we are currently building up to the next storyline. We just finished the big Zodiark Hydalyn storyline that drove the game. We are building up to the next one. In storytelling these things can take time...but of course the pacing is up to the author. Sometimes its not that great, sometimes it gets good. All a matter of perspective and opinion.
If you arn't enjoying it, there is nothing wrong with taking a break.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Many people, like the above poster, want you to think that you have to and there’s no choice. To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now. People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on. Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down. We have to consume this particular product because other people have made it a part of their personality.

Unfortunately for them, regular consumers aren’t turned on by this constant circlejerk. Given that FFXIV isn’t even the third most-played MMO, there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers. Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?

The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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I dunno, I feel the notion that people who still enjoy the game are ‘blindly loyal’ to it and do not have/are repressing any criticism or negative opinion is a bit of a fallacy. Most of the debates on this forum rarely ever involve people saying that the game is perfect or free from flaws. Sure, on places like Reddit you will see more pure celebration of the game but… is that a bad thing? Must we always have to do deep dives into every aspect of the game? Or specifically state we have ‘negatives/positives’ about the game before giving an opinion? I saw someone once state that positing commissioned artwork of their WoL was a sign of toxic positivity and to say that just seems… very sad. Sure, some people likely are victim to toxic positivity, in the same way that people are also victim to toxic negativity. Every game has that, but we should not blindly judge others or say we speak for the community as a whole, especially in regard to issues that are subjective like story quality.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Many people, like the above poster, want you to think that you have to and there’s no choice. To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now. People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on. Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down. We have to consume this particular product because other people have made it a part of their personality.

Unfortunately for them, regular consumers aren’t turned on by this constant circlejerk. Given that FFXIV isn’t even the third most-played MMO, there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers. Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?

The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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Indeed it does.

As far as competition goes I can't say I missed the game much during my break as I replayed the Dragon Age games and a number of other rpgs, with WoW and FFXI to get my mmo fix. FFXIV by comparison is a bloated mess with rapidly degrading gameplay and increasing the level cap will only stretch out what few abilities we have further and make the early levels even more unbearable - suffice to say I would not have made it past ARR with the state of classes in this game. An enormous waste of time before combat gets good and a story that betrays you by the end, no thanks.

FFXIV is currently suffering from an extreme mismanagement problem on all fronts. The story in the past may have redeemed it, but the shift from actually entertaining the player with a decent adventure back in Heavensward and Shadowbringers has all been thrown away for the sake of the need of some of these writers to play at being philosophers when I'm at odds with the morals they try to put across and the obtuse way they've gone about doing so. "Forge ahead!" the game tells me as the Scions get magically brought back from death while the former companions a malevolent witch manipulated us into murdering get permakilled off.

Unless FFXIV becomes an actual video game in 7.0 I can't see how in the world this game will manage to pull off its alleged "10 year plan." You can't hope to keep this game running with a story that generated the most backlash in the past decade and doubling down on it further with progressively lazier and moralizing writing, jobs getting ruined left and right, and absolutely 0 response to any of these problems. But I guess the Limsa crowd will enjoy their graphics upgrade so the game looks like it came out in 2015 instead of 2010, whereas most others will be off playing whatever's slated to come out around 7.0, like FFVII Remake Part 2, etc.

I look forward to the threads from you in 6.4, 6.5 and 6.55 and heck likely 7.0. If we don't oh well its not a big loss, there is being constructive with your opinions or flat-out calling everyone wrong and also choosing actively to quote and reply to people that loosely conform to a similar mindset. If the game declines change may happen who knows we aren't in decline. At the moment it goes from strength to strength, even with WoW slightly reinvigorating itself (Albeit has a ton to prove because you talk about devs not listening well oh boy haha) I think the biggest read flag is being a Dragon Age fan...that's a fanbase that got kicked about release to release, only the first game was amazing the rest deary me.

If you are trolling or can't seem to have open honest debate then you're best just leaving altogether because you cherry-picking posts to quote or screens on the odd comment on Reddit doesn't form a case. Just cause you to find 10 people with the same viewpoint doesn't escape the hundreds or thousands who doubt. Also, not everyone who plays who has a positive or negative opinion may even use Reddit or the forums. Time will tell if this all lasts or it finishes up, lets's just be open and constructive and actually want a debate.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

I look forward to the threads from you in 6.4, 6.5 and 6.55 and heck likely 7.0.

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I give him 50/50 odds he'll be back by 6.35 to complain about something. Either the deep dungeon story, or Hildebrand, or the relics, or the relics that require Hildebrand requiring running the deep dungeon, or something.

Wonder if he'll be for or against Reddit then? Guess it depends if they agree with him that week.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unless FFXIV becomes an actual video game in 7.0 I can't see how in the world this game will manage to pull off its alleged "10 year plan." You can't hope to keep this game running with a story that generated the most backlash in the past decade and doubling down on it further with progressively lazier and moralizing writing, jobs getting ruined left and right, and absolutely 0 response to any of these problems. But I guess the Limsa crowd will enjoy their graphics upgrade so the game looks like it came out in 2015 instead of 2010, whereas most others will be off playing whatever's slated to come out around 7.0, like FFVII Remake Part 2, etc.

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You seem to be confusing percentages with pure numbers. EW blew away every other expansion in the size of its playerbase, and also saw a significant influx of players from WoW (which is a rather different kind of MMO). Simple math says that EW will likely have the most anything in terms of pure numbers, whether good, bad, or anything in-between. Speaking frankly, based on its playerbase, EW's "backlash" has been minimal. It's come down to a few dozen posters here on this one forum complaining incessantly. Go to just a single YT video on EW and you'll likely find hundreds of people posting about how much they enjoyed EW and how meaningful it was for them.

Heck, when Soken revealed he was recovering from cancer back in ShB, a group of 40 musicians put together a tribute for him. When "Close in the Distance" came out for EW, a group of 1000 people submitted voice recordings to create a fan-made version of it. Again - when you have by far the largest number of people playing, you will also likely have the largest # of people doing anything (including complaining or creating "backlash"). In terms of the size of the playerbase? The "backlash" is minuscule. Frankly, I can easily see the next "10-year plan" going off quite well given the current trajectory of the game.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Wonder if he'll be for or against Reddit then? Guess it depends if they agree with him that week.

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Seems accurate to OPs pattern.
Only time he ever posts is if you agree with him.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Heck, when Soken revealed he was recovering from cancer back in ShB, a group of 40 musicians put together a tribute for him. When "Close in the Distance" came out for EW, a group of 1000 people submitted voice recordings to create a fan-made version of it. Again - when you have by far the largest number of people playing, you will also likely have the largest # of people doing anything (including complaining or creating "backlash"). In terms of the size of the playerbase? The "backlash" is minuscule. Frankly, I can easily see the next "10-year plan" going off quite well given the current trajectory of the game.

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I would not normally respond to you under any circumstances but the fact that you came in here with the emotional manipulation angle has driven me to do so.

I do not care whether or not the music dude had cancer or not - my issue is with other sectors of the game pertaining to story and gameplay and the fact that you brought this up to back up your gotcha is behavior that you should strongly reconsider.

Do not use other people's health as a weapon in an argument.