Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

It's less the thing that makes Venat justified, and more what fits in with the pattern of themes and messages lut forth by the writers, and doesn't make every character involved look like an idiot for no good reason.

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Thankfully nobody is obligated to take some vague concept of 'themes' at face value and take it on board as an absolute. Especially when so much of what is pushed as a 'theme' in this game is often a huge double standard. As we're now seeing with the endless circular argument of genocide being wrong, aside from that one time that Venat did it because that genocide was supposedly an excusable and necessary one.

It's...it's also just a video game at the end of the day. What people root for in a fictional setting does not necessarily equal something they would support in the real world. I do know that can be a difficult concept to grasp for those who ever seek to have their particular world views reinforced absolutely everywhere though.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

They could have done this with the second sacrifice, and instead chose to sacrifice lives to Zodiark. So they probably aren't gonna do that.

...in fact, it's possible they didn't even have to do that, and still chose not to. Again, Thavnair got hit by the exact same phenomena that hit Amaurot, and Thavnair seems to be recovering quite well.



I am once again asking you to remember THERE WERE PEOPLE OTHER THAN VENAT IN THAT GROUP. Consider those other eleven people; they didn't have knowledge of the future, they were not told, and they still agreed with the result.

If you think 'what level of sacrifice was too much for Venat' is an invalid question, instead ask 'what level of sacrifice was too much for The Watcher'. Not a single one of you has actually remembered that he's there and he had ten other people with him.

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Did i miss the part where they said all the floral and fauna in thavnair got destroyed? Or where the soil decayed, the winds ceased to blow, water turned poisonous etc.

Can we maybe think of a situation, when a planet was totally dead and lifeless, devoid of any activity and covered in total stillness, where through a means other than Zodiark sacrifices, characters were able to restore that world to a viable ecosystem?

Didn't something like that happen in Shadowbringers? Anyone remember that?

The raid series where they deliberately created life to kill it and use its aether…?

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Can we maybe think of a situation, when a planet was totally dead and lifeless, devoid of any activity and covered in total stillness, where through a means other than Zodiark sacrifices, characters were able to restore that world to a viable ecosystem?

Didn't something like that happen in Shadowbringers? Anyone remember that?

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You mean when we used a being that was only created through the sacrifice of more than half of an entire planets people dying and then we ourselves had to use sacrifices(primals) to bring back a small form of life?

Oh, ya mean when we summoned primals [much like the Ancients would be restoring the ecosystem and likely having the third sacrifice be familiars] to restore the Empty?

Themes is one of the reasons why I believe the EW narrative suffered as it did. It seemed they were less interested in telling a cohesive and compelling story than they were meeting thematic definitions (including trying to write around song lyrics /facepalm), which largely fell flat for me as I fundamentally disagreed with the conclusions drawn.

I'm also going to point out that when it came to the NieR crossover it was argued it couldn't be taken as accurate because it was based on Emet's POV, which was unreliable. Meanwhile, the Watcher is the epitome of biased. As a creation of Hydaelyn, he believed as she did and additionally his memories were limited by her. The rules magically change if it favors Venat.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

The raid series where they deliberately created life to kill it and use its aether…?

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I am begging people to understand that a primal is not a living being. Shiva, Bahamut and Shinryu were not living entities with wills of their own. They are entities summoned and motivated by the desires of the ones who summoned them.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

I'm not calling Venat's faction a cult or a conspiracy theory group, per se, but look: enough cults and conspiracy theory groups exist that it's bizarre to me for you to put forth that Venat being able to bring together a very small group of people who shared her viewpoint and concerns as they existed, and agreed with her reasons, is just unfathomable. The recording in Anyder, if anything, lends itself to that the faction as a whole was not concerned about "protecting the sacrifices" but far more caught up in "if we keep down this path, we'll cause our own doom!"

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Why is it mutually exclusive? One can be horrified by the sacrifice of living beings while also remaining focused on the ultimate goal. Why do people seem to think that having multiple, overlapping reasons for action is impossible?

Putting it simply, we can say that the willingness to sacrifice innocents to reclaim those lives lost is morally abhorrent, and the willingness of the Ancients to still go through with it is a another sign they won’t be able to accept the end of their “paradise.” If this is the price their willing to pay, would they be willing to give up their world, their immortality and their perfection?

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

Oh, ya mean when we summoned primals [much like the Ancients would be restoring the ecosystem and likely having the third sacrifice be familiars] to restore the Empty?

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Not familiars, arcane entities which do not possess a soul, will or emotions. Seems like a poor comparison to me!

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I'm also going to point out that when it came to the NieR crossover it was argued it couldn't be taken as accurate because it was based on Emet's POV, which was unreliable. Meanwhile, the Watcher is the epitome of biased. As a creation of Hydaelyn, he believed as she did and additionally his memories were limited by her. The rules magically change if it favors Venat.

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Let’s remove all biased sources then actually! Hyth, Hyth 2.0, Venat, Emet, the Watcher, the cross over event, the cutscene in Elpis, Elidibus, and the crystals all should be ignored due to their biases!

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You mean when we used a being that was only created through the sacrifice of more than half of an entire planets people dying and then we ourselves had to use sacrifices(primals) to bring back a small form of life?

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What are you talking about? Eden was the result of one guy dying. Surely if some sundered could figure out how to make the life energy of one ancient and some primals into an effective terraforming device, the ancients could have too.

Sure, maybe it would have taken longer than the sacrifice a large number of thier population to instantly restore the ecosystem, but we've confirmed it'd work.

Heck, maybe "terraforming with primals" was the original Azem's mysterious third option.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Why is it mutually exclusive? One can be horrified by the sacrifice of living beings while also remaining focused on the ultimate goal. Why do people seem to think that having multiple, overlapping reasons for action is impossible?

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Because Venat also demonstrated a perfect willingness to "sacrifice living beings" in order to "protect the Ancients" (from her own perspective) by subjecting them to the Sundering as well.

She herself never spoke of defending the sacrifices. The writers have never tied defending the sacrifices in to her motives. Her big speech before the Sundering was wholly centered on her love of her people as the driving factor for her decision. The sacrifices did not matter to her except how they factored in to what she saw as the Ancients' downfall.